Cartridge Emulators versus Properly Sprung Forks?

[Hyperborea]

I've seen a number of posts about the three main contenders for fork cartridge emulators - Cogent, Ricor, and Race Tech. Generally, most of those using them have found them to be of some improvement (the range of such varies) with a small minority in some cases finding them to be not so good.

Almost always this work was done at the same time as the fork springs were upgraded / right-sized for the rider. Is there anybody who had the springs correctly sized before trying any of the emulators? How much improvement were the emulators over and above the springs? If not then how do we know how much of the improvement is really due to the springs and pre-load adjustment?

 

[Antarius]

I did springs first. It helped the forks, but not where they needed help.

The forks need help in their ability to deal with sharp, square edged bumps, and return the wheel to the ground rapidly enough (but not too fast), without causing a secondary bump.

Damping rod forks will never be able to accomplish both, because if you make the holes in the rods big enough to let oil flow through them for the small square edge bumps, the forks will bottom out on the large bumps.

So, anyway, to answer your question: Springs helped with the preload setting, but did nothing for the jitteriness or harshness of the fork. Nothing at all. Ricors, for me, also did not even remotely come close. RT Gold Valve Emulators worked wonders and my forks feel nearly as good as a true cartridge fork now.

 

[Cigar Mike]

Old tech forks take time to set up for riders. When you take into account the bikes are set up for what is considered your average rider and for pavement it is not surprising that more aggressive riding or off road riding will require some tuning. Aftermarket is usually the easiest route since the suppliers have done most of the work. Once they get your information they can make a swag on what will be an improvement for you.

On our old mx bikes we did not have many choices and we tuned the forks through trial wand error. Determining the correct spring rate was the first step. For dirt bikes it was pretty simple to do. If you bottomed out the suspension on anything but the largest bumps where you normally ride it was to soft. If you never bottomed out you were to stiff. There was no sense in having 12" of travel if you only used 6" of it.

We were limited on how much could be done with rebound and compression damping. Mixing different fork oil weights together to find a weight that worked the best for both rebound and compression was the best we could do without getting the drill bit out. Raising fork oil level would help resist bottoming without affecting the rest of the stroke.

The aftermarket experts really do make all of this much easier to dial in. And it is worth the money for ease of adjustment. Some fine tuning will still be required but with there help it is pretty simple when using there product.

Setting static sag and race sag also makes a difference. Setting preload front and rear will change steering quickness. But preload does not make a spring stiffer or softer through its range. Preload only affects the first inch of travel. If you preload a 100 pound spring 1/2" it will take 50 pounds to move the travel into the rest of the spring. After that it takes another 100 pounds for every inch of travel

 

[gboswellsac]

I've seen a number of posts about the three main contenders for fork cartridge emulators - Cogent, Ricor, and Race Tech. Generally, most of those using them have found them to be of some improvement (the range of such varies) with a small minority in some cases finding them to be not so good.

Almost always this work was done at the same time as the fork springs were upgraded / right-sized for the rider. Is there anybody who had the springs correctly sized before trying any of the emulators? How much improvement were the emulators over and above the springs? If not then how do we know how much of the improvement is really due to the springs and pre-load adjustment?

I'm cheap and not too aggressive so I kept the original springs and only added the ricor inserts and used the Maxima 5 wt advanced (synthetic) fork oil. I'm impressed with reduced brake dive and softer (lack of Harshness) feel. Now I'm looking at something for my Wing but it has progressive springs ( after about 74K miles on them need replacement also) as doing a patriot guard function I found the Wing is harsher than my new ricor added X forks. Lot of uncontrolled issues in all this but the ricor was an definite improvement for me on the X for a modest $177.97 investment.