DCT Issue

[showkey]

To test the overheat theory:

Get the bike back to N. ( some how)
Start the bike. Let it sit and idle until the fans cycle or it overheats. ( it was over heating bike boil over spit the coolant).

One other note. The pictures and prior text indicated modification and accessories added The lithium battery ( it was changed) , driving lights, exhaust etc.......maybe other items ?? Means body panels removed, wiring added etc........think it would be critical that all these devices be looked at and all the wiring and connectors be carefully checked. Simple soft set electrical connection, loose ground lug, incorrect spliced wire could be a cause. Again just throwing ideas out.

 

[670cc]

Makes sense. That would be then a lengthy troubleshooting process to try and replace each sensor/motor one at a time and ride the bike long enough and see if that fixes it. May as well get new wheels at this point

Random trial and error would take time, but would be unnecessary. There’s no need for guesswork. With the bike in it’s current failed state, an analysis of the conditions and symptoms by a competent Honda support engineer should quickly narrow it down to just one or two possibilities. The right person just hasn’t been put on the job yet.

 

[telecam]

I am have been quite docile so far. No yelling, no screaming, paid all repair bills... Had a disappointing call with my Honda Customer Care case agent today. They are pretty much dropping the ball, asking me to work with the dealer to get it fixed or see with their sales dpt if they would take my bike as a trade in for a new one. He says it's consistent with the company policy, they never deal on a case by case basis,... Dealer is unresponsive and doesn't return phone calls or emails. Just for everyone to be warned, Honda doesn't stand behind their products! Sounds like at that point, I may be better off donating it to my fellow forum members

 

[670cc]

I’m rather shocked by Honda’s response. Honda has a lot riding on the success of the DCT. Documented stories like this one showing how Honda doesn’t back up the DCT product could do some serious reputation damage.

At this point, the dealer has nothing to gain by helping you. They’ve probably lost money as it is and would rather see you disappear.

 

[HarveyM]

I can't help but feel we (at least DCT owners) should support telecam in this. It's basic self-interest. It might have happened to any one of us, and until we know what did happen we could be put in his(?) position. As a group we can let Honda know we're concerned.

 

[telecam]

Thanks HarveyM, it's very kind of you. In my dealing with Honda PowerSports, I realized how closed their communication system is. The chat window is never active, they never communicate via emails (my case agent would not disclose his email address and if you go on Honda PowerSports website, good luck finding a single email address), they do not share contact info of the higher management (I asked for it and was turned down, I reached level two in Customer Care and that was it), all you get is nice chats with their reps on their one an only help line trying to put out fires and as soon as you get pushy, they turn you onto the dealer. Their products are very good and rarely failed or become tricky to repair as my motorcycle did and for the poor souls who end up where I am, there is really nowhere to go. As soon as I mentioned my Customer Care Agent that without further actions on their part, my only options would be to share my story and go around Honda motors products forums, he pretty much balked at it and say Honda doesn't respond to this kind of threats... And frankly, as a long time motorcycle & car Honda customer, this kind of hurt thinking this way. SAD!

 

[lootzyan]

You may seek help with your state government and maybe federal, too.

Home

But meantime, can't you talk privately to technician, YOUNES MSAADI, who worked on your bike? He spent the most time on your bike. I suspect that his supervisor didn't allow him to work more to find a problem. Hire him, not for $110/h but maybe for $30/h. Parts you can buy online.
And get money back for replaced PCM.

 

[telecam]

They let me talk to him once but won't allow it anymore (I assumed...). I could try googling him. But he'd need all the fancy Honda electronics diagnostics tool set? Meanwhile, working on some online campaign ideas. I work in the communication field so, have plenty or experience and resources on that end

 

[rmezei]

25k miles here no issues and I know many others on here no issues ... I did change DCT filter every 12k and use 10w30 by the book ... also did not modify battery or electrical system as I know DCT sensitive to this . I’m not trying to be a snob or anything just letting you know ...

Curious ... does the bike now have original oem battery or equivalent recommended ? And no other load? I would try to restore to default as much as possible and take everything off leave no accessories on

 

[telecam]

You are preaching to the choir here... I have been a long time Honda cars and motorcycles customer and trust the products, Honda XLR 125, CB500, CB750, Odyssey, CR-V and NC700X. I made the point above "Their products are very good and rarely failed or become tricky to repair ..." I totally agree that overall, DCT is a great system and appears reliable. That should be one big reason for them to dedicate more resource to my case since this seem to be one of very few (I you look well, you will find other cases...).I have always used Honda GN4 10W30 oil. Yes, dealer installed same battery as Honda's factory battery. 2 years back, I installed a set of 2 x 10W daytime LED driving lights, that's all there is as far as load on the electrical system. I guess I am mainly going after Honda Customer Care response which frankly I found pathetic.

 

[lootzyan]

Some late evening thoughts:
Did you try to start your bike after it cooled down? If you couldn't and DCT is still in gear... it's not overheating problem.
Did you try advice from owner's manual:
"If you still cannot start the engine?:
Start the engine while applying the brake lever or pressing the brake pedal."

What I understand that this is to bypass self diagnosing function, to force start up of the engine and, eventually, to trigger fail-safe function ("to secure a minimum running capability even when there is trouble in the system")
If this would work or not, that would give you additional information and clue. Write down everything what you noticed.
This is fixable.

One more thing - for this job there is no need for "fancy Honda electronics diagnostics tool set". Just cheap digital multimeter.

 

[telecam]

Yep, tried all that.

 

[dduelin]

I truly feel for telecam here and expect my response might be interpreted as siding with Honda however these are just observations on my part.

By many accounts Honda has sold many of these motorcycles around the world and one would hope that Honda has some data on expected failure rates vs. customer complaints. I might be completely wrong but if they were tracking parts or systems failures I believe this might have some bearing on the attention a case gets. If the circumstances were that there are a lot of DCT failures in a newly released machine they might be more motivated to fly engineers to wherever to look it over or to work closely over the phone with an authorized dealer to find a resolution. I did see this circumstance with a 2018 Goldwing whose owner reported it stalling when accelerating from a stop. American Honda was in very close communication with the servicing dealer's service manager and the tech working on the bike. OTOH this machine [NC700X] has sold in large numbers worldwide, though perhaps not in the US, for 6 - 7 years and if in Honda's view has a failure rate that of or below expectations then they might not be so interested. There could also be some information there that we are not privy to that influenced the lack of resolution - added equipment, wiring, or repairs done previously.

 

[670cc]

It’s frustrating, but all too often forum members ask for help on problems, then other members dig into it with research or experience, offer solutions, then the original poster just disappears with no follow up. I want to publicly thank telecam for the thorough and continuous feedback to our forum on this problem. It has helped us all learn a lot, and although I had hoped we would already be discussing the resolution by now, it’s been valuable information for our forum and for the whole world.

 

[telecam]

And for my fellow members' info, here are some other cases of DCT drama from the UK. Must be because they ride on the left side...

NC750X dct snatching gears, badly - Service Questions - The Honda NC Owners Forum
NC750X DCT - Refuses to engage gears ! - Service Questions - The Honda NC Owners Forum
Another DCT stuck in gear - Service Questions - The Honda NC Owners Forum
DCT gear box issue - honda NC750x - Service Questions - The Honda NC Owners Forum

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I see mention of tarnished connectors while reading through the 3rd link. The member on there who suggested this is Embee and I would mostly value his opinions on all such matters. I have seen intermittent issues on Triumph Explorers with poor running that was random and no sign of an error code. On one such issue a diligent tech started to go through all the connectors starting with the major ones. It wasn't too long before he found two that had moisture in them. Variations in the levels of heat around the connectors was affecting the moisture in them and this was also accounting for the random aspect of the problem with poor running. The connectors were cleaned out and put back and the problem was solved. Excessive washing with a pressure washer was the suspect cause of the moisture ingress.

 

[telecam]

Thanks Griff,

Since my dealer and Honda Customer Care are now MIA, I'll follow up today on a few user tips . This has been so time consuming and nerving that at this point, I need to find a quick and easy exit. Probably trade in the bike or sell it for half its worth (maybe 2K) to whomever wants it. I will however continue and ramp up my bashing of Honda PowerSports Customer Care, their response to the case has been pathetic at best.

 

[HarveyM]

Dave, I don't dispute that the DCT system is reliable, but any mechanical device can fail, for what ever reason. As a consumer I care that repairs to my NC can be made in a timely & effective manner. Clearly the dealer in this case can't do that. Just as Honda is responsible for the engineering on it's bikes it has an equal responsibility to train it's dealer network on it's new technology (and removing dealers who are sub-standard). Not doing so only hurts the brand.

 

[b_rubenstein]

This site lists the Honda R&D Americas facilities. There are no motorcycle related facilities in North America, because they don't build any motorcycles here. Expert engineering technical knowledge for the NC DTC will reside in Japan and the local R&D facility that supports the plant that manufactures the powerplants & motorcycles. If one were having a problem with the DTC in their ATV here, there might be a chance for serious technical help, but SOL for MC help.

 

[telecam]

Tried a few things this morning on a recommendation from Embee (UK NC700 forum). I tested current to the shift motor. I can see some voltage when turning the ignition on but only in the mV range, not at all 12V. There may be an issue right there as the computer sees the bike being in 5th gear but no electrical signal is sent to the shift motor to downshift to neutral . I unplugged, cleaned and re-plugged all the connectors I could find around the engine. I also checked, clean and resat main connector at the LCD display. When holding the brake down, I can start the engine, but gear display still shows 5 and none of the D, S, Up, Down, M/A buttons work. I can trigger the DCT initialization (DDSDS) but it consistently fails, DS stay lit and I see a flashing dash instead of gear number. If I recall initialization doesn't take more than a minute of so. I let it sat for 3 or 4 minutes without success. Tried this a few times.