Real cruise control for NC700 - volunteer needed

[Nofear2trek]

This happens when using either of the brakes? Can be replicated by push-buttoning the brake signal without applying the brakes?
A programming particularity of the TCM that dictates that if the rider is still heavily on the throttle and the brakes are applied again and again this means lack of control?

If anything else fails, I would suggest a tiny time delay from the time the brake signal is applied to the time it is sent to the TCM just enough for the servo to release the throttle enough. Maybe 100-150ms?? Unfortunately this would mean more cutting and extra circuitry.

Whoosh...that is all over my head and pay grade! I'll stick with an extra universal brake switch with the spring thingy hooked to the rear brake pedal with its own switched power. I can also use it for other auxiliary brake lights to my top case and trailer later.



Ray

 

[Mi_ka]

Have this second switch adjusted so it is activated earlier than the bike's own switch so the CC unit senses "brakes applied" before the DCT control brains.
So you press the pedal, the CC releases the throttle and then the bike's brains senses you pressed the pedal.
Please report back of any results if possible.

 

[wa5vhu]

For the disengage signal why not just sense off the brake light line? Am I missing something? Zero volts when not braking and ~12 volts when braking.

 

[Nofear2trek]

For the disengage signal why not just sense off the brake light line? Am I missing something? Zero volts when not braking and ~12 volts when braking.

The problem was when it was tapped into the brake light wire, past the connection under the seat.

While riding, I was having the engine die (stall) or the DCT transmission disengage at the oddest moments. *I would pull to the side of the road, put the transmission in neutral, restart the engine, and off I would go again. *I thought it was a warranty problem and would take care of it when I got back to Oregon.

Then the transmission again disengaged, I pulled to the side of the road, but this time I couldn't get the transmission back into neutral. *That meant I couldn't get the bike restarted again.

I had to have AAA tow the bike to the Honda dealer.

Long story shortened, they had to disconnect the cruise control's brake wire, it was doing sometime to the bikes computer.

With it connected, you could have the bike running at idle and press the rear brake pedal about 8-10 times in succession and the engine would die. It was strange to watch the same think happen over and over again.

Even if the cruise control's 12v switched power was disconnected, the engine would die (like a kill switch being turned on) after 8-10 brake pedal pumps. *With the cruise control brake wire disconnected, the engine and DCT runs perfect.

So I am going to put a separate switch on to attempt to solve that problem.

Ray

 

[sumo]

The extra switch on the brake pedal won't help when you apply the front brake. What about a tiny relay activated by the brake light circuit?

 

[Nofear2trek]

The extra switch on the brake pedal won't help when you apply the front brake. What about a tiny relay activated by the brake light circuit?

I don't see not having the front brake linked to be a problem. While riding at cruising conditions using a cruise control, I always instictly apply the rear brake first, using the front to supplement it.

I'm lost when it comes to relays and such, I think a relay actually was added when he wired in the brake disengagement wire.

The brown wire is tapped to the brake light wire, in the rear of the bike, leading to a relay installed, the blue wire is tapped to the motion sensor.



Ray

 

[Mi_ka]

I guess the brake sensing circuit of the CC unit affects expected line resistance values by the TCM bike unit or so...

A relay could solve such problems but induce others due to contact bouncing: If you go the way of having the brake light cable activating a double relay that feeds the TCM sensing on one hand and the CC unit on the other, if the relay fails you may have trouble with both units not behaving as expected at the usual Murphy timing situation.

I would leave the bike's sensing as is and tap into this line with an optocoupler along 2-3 resistors a 2-3 diodes to make sure everything is polarized as should be and no conditions can cause reverse polarity situations by channeling power to the power feed lines upon switch-switch off or the odd disconnect case. Simple to do for an electronics guys - any of your friends in this know-how?
In this way you can have optimum reliability and no mechanical contacts weak points.

The other useful result I get from all this is that you cannot afford having both brake switches malfunctioning if you are to expect fully reliable DCT operation on each and every "brakes applied" case. So if one switch goes, better replace it soon than residing on the other one to do business.

 

[mccruise]

Hi Guys,

We are getting quite worried about your safety - and your bikes, based on what we are now reading about what you are doing and how you are putting car cruise controls on your bikes. The way in which you are interfacing to the throttle body is quite dangerous and the likelihood of a throttle jam I suggest is high. I have experienced throttle jam myself - at 230KPH - and I do not want any of you to have that occur. I was very lucky I was on a race track and had time to respond. On the road, that could be deadly.

The other issue is the Lite-On servo you are using is designed for cars. It is VERY powerful and has full travel of 37-38mm. Typically motorcycles have full travel of 18-24mm - especially Honda. You are using the servo in a completely linear way and there is a chance you could damage your whole throttle body assembly doing it the way it is shown in the photos. That is exactly why we developed the cable interface unit - to change the ratios. We developed our own computer and software because we discovered automotive cruise controls do not have enough protection against high voltage electrical spikes - and bikes are electrically noisy. What happens is a high voltage spike can lock the cruise control chip! Once that happens the only way to fix it is to power the cruise control down and up again. Since the cruise can pull full throttle in less than 2 seconds if the chip locks in the 'open throttle' position which will happen eventually - this presents an exceedingly dangerous situation which the rider may not have the time to respond to without accident.

You may think my vested interest is talking here, but first and foremost we ride motorcycles. I think it would be totally irresponsible to NOT inform you of the dangers. We have now had 15 years of experience with no dangerous events occurring with our equipment - used all over the world. we also have global product liability insurance which costs us an arm and a leg - but the crucial thing is we HAVE it - and no-one else does. there is a good reason we have been able to secure it: it is because our gear does NOT fail in a dangerous state! Audiovox, Rostra and now Lite On (Brandon Distribution) products are ONLY made for automobiles. You put them on anything else at your own risk - simple as that.

 

[Mi_ka]

what micro controller family are you using and what is your watchdog feature and power brownout designed policy?

no details as these are trade secrets but I would love to listen more as your above arguments have a solid base but I want to read more technical stuff since you design your own devices before I hit "like" on your answer, if my NC-less opinion has any value

 

[TigerDude]

I would never buy a cruise system that was not connected to the front brake and the clutch.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

I like it unreal.

 

[670cc]

My cruise control actuator is my right hand operated by my brain, using audio and visual inputs for closed loop feedback.

 

[TigerDude]

I have a brakeaway, but really it's only for tightening my left glove or tightening my left cuff. It is a very fancy throttle position keeper. (came with my bike)