So it's true

[TNHoosier]

My corner speed is definitely higher with the NC than the FJR.

 

[the Ferret]

Strictly talking street bikes here, because there are other factors if you ride off road...

A Honda CB300R can run 20 over the speed limit and 20 over the posted corner speed but virtually no one would call the 27 hp (at the rear wheel) bike powerful or fast. Almost any bike can do it if ridden hard enough. I've seen guys railing the local sport bike roads around here on sub 10 hp Honda Groms.

Weight not horsepower is generally the limiting factor when it comes to handling. The more a bike weighs the harder it is to corner. There is a reason MotoGP bikes, while pushing 300 hp, are ridden through curves the fastest of all motorcycles. Because they don't weigh 600 pounds.

The reason people ride the NC's around in sport mode vs standard mode is because it makes the bike FEEL more powerful. It still only has 50 odd horsepower no matter which mode you ride it in. Going 60mph in a 40 zone is still 60 mph whether in standard mode or sport mode. 60 is still 60 in 5th or 6th gear.

The thing about horsepower and torque is that having more of them makes riding a bike easier because it doesnt have to be ridden hard to perform. You can run the same speeds at lower rpms and with less shifting. Attaining 60 mph with a 100 hp bike is infinitely easier than with a 50 hp bike. Not that the 50 hp bike cant do it, it's just harder on the less powerful bike.

The question is, is 50 hp enough? For some yes. For some the 27 hp ( CB300R) is enough. For some the 9.7 hp (Grom) is enough. Others might find 9.7, 27 or 50 somewhat lacking. While others scoff at 100. Each individual must decide how much power they want/need. How much weight is acceptable. What numbers are satisfying when they ride them. I know on the days I ride my 88 hp 63 # torque CB 1100 it makes me wish the NC had those numbers. It is so seriously fun to ride. But then it isnt as skinny and light as the NC. An NC with the CB numbers would be seriously awesome to me.

Will the NT 1100 be that bike? Hard to say, but fun to think about

 

[Rabbit]

A Honda CB300R can run 20 over the speed limit and 20 over the posted corner speed but virtually no one would call the 27 hp (at the rear wheel) bike powerful or fast. Almost any bike can do it if ridden hard enough. I've seen guys railing the local sport bike roads around here on sub 10 hp Honda Groms.

Weight not horsepower is generally the limiting factor when it comes to handling. The more a bike weighs the harder it is to corner. There is a reason MotoGP bikes, while pushing 300 hp, are ridden through curves the fastest of all motorcycles. Because they don't weigh 600 pounds.

The reason people ride the NC's around in sport mode vs standard mode is because it makes the bike FEEL more powerful. It still only has 50 odd horsepower no matter which mode you ride it in. Going 60mph in a 40 zone is still 60 mph whether in standard mode or sport mode. 60 is still 60 in 5th or 6th gear.

The thing about horsepower and torque is that having more of them makes riding a bike easier because it doesnt have to be ridden hard to perform. You can run the same speeds at lower rpms and with less shifting. Attaining 60 mph with a 100 hp bike is infinitely easier than with a 50 hp bike. Not that the 50 hp bike cant do it, it's just harder on the less powerful bike.

The question is, is 50 hp enough? For some yes. For some the 27 hp ( CB300R) is enough. For some the 9.7 hp (Grom) is enough. Others might find 9.7, 27 or 50 somewhat lacking. While others scoff at 100. Each individual must decide how much power they want/need. How much weight is acceptable. What numbers are satisfying when they ride them. I know on the days I ride my 88 hp 63 # torque CB 1100 it makes me wish the NC had those numbers. It is so seriously fun to ride. But then it isnt as skinny and light as the NC. An NC with the CB numbers would be seriously awesome to me.

Will the NT 1100 be that bike? Hard to say, but fun to think about

It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. I don’t think many race bikes are ultimately as fun because you can’t ever use more than 20-30% of what they are capable of unless you’re actually racing.

 

[the Ferret]

Actually that's not true, it's more fun to ride a fast bike fast. Ask anyone who rides a fast bike well.

 

[670cc]

Actually that's not true, it's more fun to ride a fast bike fast. Ask anyone who rides a fast bike well.

Riding fast is not part of every rider’s fun equation. In fact, it’s not part of my fun equation at all, whether the bike has the potential to go fast or not.

The NC, when it first arrived on the scene, was a breath of fresh air. Finally there was a mid size, practical, usable motorcycle that was not designed around power and speed.

 

[the Ferret]

While that is true, there are slower bikes that you COULD ride, yet you choose not to ride one of those.

So if the NC 700 had had 25 more horsepower but otherwise identical to the one you bought, you would have passed on it?

Do you not enjoy the instantaneous torque and hp power of your Zero?

 

[melensdad]

The NC, when it first arrived on the scene, was a breath of fresh air. Finally there was a mid size, practical, usable motorcycle that was not designed around power and speed.

100% agree. I think it just works for every day, all occasion riding. Not too heavy, but I do wish it was a little lighter. Not too small. Mostly good ergonomics. Crappy seat. Yes, it is built to a budget, which is why so many of us modify them. Pretty much everything just works well for most things you reasonably want to do on a bike.

Drag race on the streets? nope
Wheelies down the interstate for your Instagram followers? nope

Daily rides, errands, commuting, mid-weight long distance cruiser, mild off-roading, fun rides? YUP

 

[the Ferret]

Look, I'm not a high horsepower freak, and I knew exactly how much horsepower the NC had when I bought it (far less than its competition like the 72 hp Weestrom 650 Suzuki, the 67 hp Versys 650 Kawasaki, or the 75 hp MT 07 Yamaha) and I like the NC lot, but that doesnt mean that giving the NC more power would ruin it

But this thread is not even about the NC, it's about the upcoming soon to be released NT 1100, which still in the scheme of things is still rather low on the horsepower totem pole. It's not a race bike, or a sport bike, it's a sport tourer, and its low on the horsepower totem pole for liter class sport tourers as well. Sort of similar to the NC in that respect, wouldn't you say?

 

[670cc]

While that is true, there are slower bikes that you COULD ride, yet you choose not to ride one of those.

So if the NC 700 had had 25 more horsepower but otherwise identical to the one you bought, you would have passed on it?

Do you not enjoy the instantaneous torque and hp power of your Zero?

I would most definitely pass on an NC with 25 more horsepower. In fact, I would be happy if the NC made only 40 horsepower and was 50 pounds lighter. (An NC500X would have been awesome). Most local, rural rides on my NC don’t involve any RPM above 3500, so I don’t even use near the 47 hp it has. I think 30-40 hp and 350-400 pounds is the sweet spot for a single rider street motorcycle.

I bought the R version of the Zero DS only to get more range from the larger battery pack. not for the more powerful motor. I ride my Zero in Eco mode which limits the power output. I have no use for and don’t really enjoy the Sport mode, which unleashes the full potential of the bike. Zero once packaged the larger battery with the smaller motor, which I would have bought, but it’s not offered anymore. I like the Zero because it is smooth and quiet, and it handles pretty well, being a little lighter than the NC.

I would actually like more power from my CRF250L Rally. If it had a 350cc engine, but with no extra weight, it would be perfect. It’s not that I would go faster, but that it could then run highway speed at lower RPM.

As for slower bikes, the wife and I really enjoy our pair of 49cc scooters, which put out maybe 4 hp on a good day. I admit they would be more fun with 9.7 hp Grom sized engines.

Sounds crazy, yes, but it’s all true. And, I love riding.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

Actually that's not true, it's more fun to ride a fast bike fast. Ask anyone who rides a fast bike well.

90% of people who ride fast bikes can't ride ANY bike well

 

[hulkss]

I find that on other machines I've owned with more power than the NC, I just don't use that power much at all if it is there above 6500 rpm. I like the NC power band. Very similar to my Harley and Goldwing.

 

[hulkss]

Actually that's not true, it's more fun to ride a fast bike fast. Ask anyone who rides a fast bike well.

True, but it requires a race track. On the street, the people who ride fast bikes fast, meet with unfortunate endings.

 

[the Ferret]

I was pointing out that my NC is actually being ridden quicker than my other bikes. I seem to be pushing 20 mph over the speed limit often and 20+ or more over the corner speed markers. It is not a slow bike at all.

I guess we need to define what is riding fast? Your statement above says you ride 20 over the speed limit on surface streets (75+ in a 55?) and 20+ or more over the posted corner speeds (60+ thru a 40 mph curve?.. both of which are quite common by motorcyclists btw). To me that's riding fast. In this state going 20+ over the limit can, at the discretion of the leo, be considered Reckless Operation.

Riding fast is riding fast regardless of the bike you are on. And your Goldwing in post 4 that you posted has 2 1/2 times the horsepower of the NC (and 25 more than the NT 1100) yet you don't appear to be dead yet. And you say you ride the NC faster than the Wing, which says to me it doesn't matter how much hp you have, if you ride fast, you ride fast.

My last few bikes have had 88, 125, 130, and 145 hp,(not couunting the NC) yet I am usually speed limit +- 5 mph on surface streets. Maybe 7-10 over on the freeway. The thing about bikes with plentiful horsepower and torque, is you don't have to ride them hard to ride fast (depending on your definition of fast). You don't have ride or shift like a road racer. You can relax and let the torque pull you along, taking corners in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th it doesn't matter. Anyone who has owned or ridden an ST 1300, an FJR, a Concours, a Goldwing, a ZXR 1200, or a 1200/1250 BMW for examples can attest to that fact.

 

[dduelin]

For what it is worth Ferret, I agree completely with you. More power is better…..at least for me.

You don’t have to wait for that 1100 though. You can pick up a VFR12X today for less than $10K with a V4, 130+hp, a shaft, DCT, traction control, three sport modes and all in a package with similar ergonomics to your NC.

View attachment 46968

108 hp in the X version. Still a marvelous road engine with loads of smooth V4 torque. I lusted for this bike for 5 years until at last American Honda brought it to the USA. I wanted it to replace my ST1300. Alas, as soon as I sat on it and pushed it up off the side stand, reality came into focus. It was too tall and top heavy for my short inseam.

I hope the new touring 1100 isn’t as tall and top heavy as the Africa Twin platform it is built off of. Hopefully Honda will have lowered the seat height like the 2021 NCX.

 

[hulkss]

I guess we need to define what is riding fast? Your statement above says you ride 20 over the speed limit on surface streets (75+ in a 55?) and 20+ or more over the posted corner speeds (60+ thru a 40 mph curve?.. both of which are quite common by motorcyclists btw). To me that's riding fast.

As you state. I am riding at a quite common speed for motorcycles. Fast guys are very very much faster.

 

[dduelin]

Looks like we were both a little off on the hp….

Whatever it is…..it will “spit and git” …….!

2018 Honda VFR1200X specifications, pictures, reviews and rating

General information
Power:	127.4 HP (93.0 kW)) @ 7750 RPM
Torque:	126.0 Nm (12.8 kgf-m or 92.9 ft.lbs) @ 6500 RPM
Compression:	12.0:1
Bore x stroke:	81.0 x 60.0 mm (3.2 x 2.4 inches)

I wasn’t off at all. I was using rear wheel hp and torque which is almost the same as the ST1300’s. I read everything I could on the VFR1200X for those 5 years. Their respective areas under the dyno curves mirror each other. Honda and other mfg claim hp but the dyno shows.

 

[the Ferret]

108 hp in the X version. Still a marvelous road engine with loads of smooth V4 torque. I lusted for this bike for 5 years until at last American Honda brought it to the USA. I wanted it to replace my ST1300. Alas, as soon as I sat on it and pushed it up off the side stand, reality came into focus. It was too tall and top heavy for my short inseam.

I hope the new touring 1100 isn’t as tall and top heavy as the Africa Twin platform it is built off of. Hopefully Honda will have lowered the seat height like the 2021 NCX.

I have the same issues as dduelin when it comes to seat height, and I'm not sure the taller more vertical AT motor in the NT 1100 will feel more than 50 pounds heavier than the forward slanted motor in the NC. I really do enjoy the lightweight feel of the NC.

 

[the Ferret]

As you state. I am riding at a quite common speed for motorcycles. Fast guys are very very much faster.

That's what I mean about defining fast. To me you ride fast, but like we said that is common in motorcyclists. IMO most ride fast.

To me speed limit= normal
10 over=acceptable
20 mph over= fast
30 over = really fast
40 mph over= insane

 

[dduelin]

I have the same issues as dduelin when it comes to seat height, and I'm not sure the taller more vertical AT motor in the NT 1100 will feel more than 50 pounds heavier than the forward slanted motor in the NC. I really do enjoy the lightweight feel of the NC.

If you’ve sat on or ridden the AT you know it feels much more than 50 lbs heavier than the NC. The traditional placement of the gas tank and mass of the fairing raise the CG significantly.

 

[Bulitt]

I wasn’t off at all. I was using rear wheel hp and torque which is almost the same as the ST1300’s. I read everything I could on the VFR1200X for those 5 years. Their respective areas under the dyno curves mirror each other. Honda and other mfg claim hp but the dyno shows.

If you say so…. All I can find is the stated spec above in multiple locations and by multiple authors at 127hp but I don’t have any interest in a contest…..or to hijack this thread …..so I will bow out.

I hope the new 1100 meets expectations. Looks like a nice bike.