Thanks for Running Me Off the HOV

[L.B.S.]

I would respectfully disagree with the no clutch braking thing.

If I'm in full blown emergency braking, my rear tire is most likely off the ground or for all intent and purpose, barely making contact. Engine braking is the last thing on my mind, and wouldn't be doing anything, especially if I'm in a higher gear.

I also don't want to be stalled out in a high gear, dead in the water, if I have to suddenly accelerate again for whatever reason.

I am, always have been, and always will be, a 100% full clutch-in (and tapping down on the gear shifter a few times if possible) type of rider.

I have never had a feeling my bike was "freewheeling" or "out of control".

I would have to have 100 out of 100 professional motorcycle instructors, who had extensive credentials and a few decades worth of motorcycle riding to back up their claims, tell me I was doing it wrong, for me to even pretend to believe otherwise.

 

[L.B.S.]

I am glad that you are OK. Watch out for this on your next commute! [video=youtube;cDoRmT0iRic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic[/video]

OMFG, that was nearly the coolest, funniest thing I've ever seen! Bahahahaha!

 

[mfb]

OMFG, that was nearly the coolest, funniest thing I've ever seen! Bahahahaha!

That is my favorite tv show. You really have to see their special episodes in Bolivia and Vietnam...

 

[Beemerphile]

After about 10 sec into the pace of the HOV traffic, a Prius pulled into the HOV lane, right after the car in front of me had passed. My guess is that he didn't see me at all and thought he could squeeze in between that car in front of me and the cruiser behind me.

RANT: I want to apologize in advance to some of you for what I am about to say. Toyota makes great cars and if you drive a Toyota, I am pretty sure you are a fine driver. But in my unscientific observation, I find a lot of inattentive, clueless, or unskilled drivers out there and a lot of those people just happen to be driving a Toyota. Excessive braking, incapable of passing slow semi-trucks and causing traffic jam, white-knuckling at normal condition, not to mention bad weather, etc. Not all Toyota drivers are bad drivers but a lot of bad drivers are in a Toyota. /RANT

There is TOYOTA and then there is PRIUS. It invokes an exponential factor of dumb.

I'm guessing their "Visualize World Peace" sticker was blocking their vision.

BTW, I have a Toyota, but not a Prius. And I am a fine driver.

 

[RiderCoach]

I'm with L.B.S. on this one. After an emergency stop I want to be in first gear, ready to move if necessary. Clutch in, both brakes fully to the threshold of lockup will produce the shortest stops if practiced on a regular basis. I think Naked_ Duc would have been well served with more than a 1.5 second following distance. When you factor in reaction time, that 1.5 second following distance gets eaten up very quickly even with the most experienced rider at the controls. Glad you survived to tell the story. It reminds me to use more following distance than I think I need at all times.

 

[Xcellor8]

I too have cussed many, many Prius drivers. A special kind of idiot seems to be attracted to those cars. Oh, and my cage is a Tundra and my wife drives a Rav4. Glad you cleared a bad situation!

 

[Chestnut]

I was also taught in my MSF class to do a panic stop both brakes, clutch in, shifting down.

You're saying you think that 20- to 30-something females are horribly inattentive drivers?

Hey! I'm a 20-30 something female! I'm a great driver. Maybe it's the minivan's fault...I won't own one, so the world may never know.

 

[dduelin]

I'm with L.B.S. on this one. After an emergency stop I want to be in first gear, ready to move if necessary. Clutch in, both brakes fully to the threshold of lockup will produce the shortest stops if practiced on a regular basis. I think Naked_ Duc would have been well served with more than a 1.5 second following distance. When you factor in reaction time, that 1.5 second following distance gets eaten up very quickly even with the most experienced rider at the controls. Glad you survived to tell the story. It reminds me to use more following distance than I think I need at all times.

I almost agree to the following distance, 2 seconds is better and not even a minimum when traffic is moving fast. However, reality is that in crowded urban traffic if I try to maintain 2 or more seconds it is guaranteed that one or even two cars will not hesitate to fill that gap. In his situation 1.5 seconds was not really going to work.

When I am forced into riding in crowded traffic I am almost lane splitting, riding right at the edge of the lane, in order to use the gap between adjoining lanes to make up for the far less than ideal following distance allowable. It opens sight lanes and allows looking far ahead and if something happens I have the 5 to 6 feet of room between cars to shoot for.

 

[jtkirk]

Most of the Prius drivers here are older than time itself. Lol at the Visualize World Peace comment. Many of the ones here have the cute coexist sticker as well.

The thing most to be watched for here are the 4x4's especially the Dodge Ram ones. Not that I have anything against pickup trucks. I have two and an Avalanche. Bowtie all the way baby!

 

[pahondafan]

X@(&%)%$~#^I





2011 RAV' LTD. V6, 4WD 1,9840K
1996 Corolla 177,672K
2012 Honda NC700XDCT


2013 Honda PCX
1999 Tacoma V6 TRD 180K–recalled by the mothership
1993 Camry LE 4cyl 220K–donated
1990 Corolla Base–retired in crash
1989 Camry 4cyl DX–traded

 

[MZ5]

I was also taught in my MSF class to do a panic stop both brakes, clutch in, shifting down.

Hey! I'm a 20-30 something female! I'm a great driver. Maybe it's the minivan's fault...I won't own one, so the world may never know.

I couldn't believe he said it, either!
I'm just funnin'. I've definitely seen plenty of inattentive drivers of all sorts. I believe insurance company actuarial tables suggest that young women are less likely to crash than young men, absent snow anyway.

 

[EOMick]

You guys do realize that our NCs are essentially the Prius of motorcycles
In Boston all drivers are d-bags so I can't correlate bad driving with a particular model.
Glad your OK.
(I have a Prius)

 

[MZ5]

I wonder whether the no-clutch notion happy posted is a Europe vs. America thing, similar to how many of our European members indicate that their training is to _not_ stay in gear while waiting to turn left in an intersection.

Anyway, clearly OP did the 'right' thing by pulling in the clutch, insofar as what he did is in keeping with the training given in the state where he was riding at the time.

Interesting, the discussion about following distance. Washington's 'rule-of-thumb,' as published in their driver's guides for decades, is (was?) 2 seconds. ID and AZ both suggest 3 seconds, by way of comparison. I no longer recall whether that suggestion in WA was a requirement, but I can assure everyone from 30 years spent in that state, that the State Patrol will essentially never stop nor cite anyone in traffic on the west side (of the state) for following even 1 second behind the car ahead.

 

[cburn]

I was also taught in my MSF class to do a panic stop both brakes, clutch in, shifting down.

Hey! I'm a 20-30 something female! I'm a great driver. Maybe it's the minivan's fault...I won't own one, so the world may never know.

A female on the NC board. This is the new "gamer girl" all the guys swoon for.

 

[happy]

Hi guys
it seems many people here will do the clutch in during an emergency braking moment.
Allow me to clarify specifically.

I was trained and I still stand by this, to first activate the brakes and only pull in the clutch AT THE VERY LAST MOMENT (to avoid engine dying).
However it is ALL RIGHT if the engine dies, because the benefit of having both Engine-brake and Wheel-brake to maximise the braking power is far more important than ensuring the engine stays alive.

If you pull in the clutch immediately (as you are trained in your course, I can believe that), the engine is disengaged and the bike rolls FASTER. This will hamper the stopping action. It is logical physics. Do driving schools (auto) also teach you to slam on both pedals? That is so wrong.

I know things may have changed in the last 20 years with ABS and better brakes and so on, but the reflex to pull in both clutch and brakes at the same time, is IMHO wrong.

I have conditioned myself (quite proud of it) to be able to pull in the brakes only, while letting the engine and brakes stop the bike, and then pull in clutch at the very last moment.
I know not many people can DO THIS.

Anyway, this is perhaps old school. Perhaps it is outdated. But this is how i see this.
Have it your way, it was just a tip.
It is not a law.


Don't take my word for it. Make an experiment.
1. Emergency brake with clutch in and brakes (ABS whatever)
2. Emergency brake with clutch engaged and brakes
Measure distance needed to brake.

This guy seems to agree with my method (I randomly googled it).
http://youtu.be/trQIgbEVIQY
And to my surprise, a sizeable group also says to pull in the clutch.


Best thing is: avoid such situations and don't tailgate. I believe my way to stop is the best for ME.

 

[Beemerphile]

"In with both hands and down with both feet" is intended as a simplified sequence to remember in an emergency that can be trained to muscle memory without conscious thought. Clutching in keeps the engine from stalling and keeps you from having to try to keep it from stalling. Down with the left foot gives an unnecessary downshift but keeps things simple. The other two give you both brakes. It worked in the old days when some bikes had right foot shift and left foot brake. It worked if you were on an unfamiliar motorcycle or if you didn't have the luxury of time to sort things out. It is intended for general application to the casual rider and not the expert with finely tuned reflexes and habits.

Think of it as one step short of this...

[video=youtube;U8-YO6g05aA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8-YO6g05aA[/video]

 

[happy]

in my motorcycle license test (>20 yrs ago), pulling in the clutch too early during the Emergency Stop test equals an IMMEDIATE FAIL.

Stalling the engine during that test, is OK.

One more tip: Grab both the handlebars tightly (left hand on the grip, right hand on the brakelever) and don't let go.

Use all FOUR fingers on the brake lever!

 

[johnakay]

I know things may have changed in the last 20 years ya most definitely we have

 

[happy]

I know things may have changed in the last 20 years ya most definitely we have

I am not there yet.

 

[MZ5]

in my motorcycle license test (>20 yrs ago), pulling in the clutch too early during the Emergency Stop test equals an IMMEDIATE FAIL.

This lends credence to my point. In my skills test, failure to pull in the clutch, or stalling the engine, was a failure.

If we're to do testing, test this: Can you lock the rear tire of a non-ABS bike by using only the rear brake (transmission in neutral or else clutch lever pulled in all the way)? If the answer is yes, then engine braking can provide no stopping assistance not already afforded by the rear brake. For those who do not have, and do not have access to, a non-ABS NC700, here's a spoiler: The answer is yes on these bikes.