Thumping and lagging on my 2013 NC700X DCT annoys me, a lot

[Afan]

No.

Generally, no, but in my case: yes.

I've tested the behavior many times, and here's what drives me nuts: I'm in 6th gear, riding at around 60 mph, and start to decelerate slowly. As I reach 38-39 mph (the speed when the D-mode shifts gears up from 5th to 6th), if I try to accelerate up again slowly or maintain the speed at that moment, the sound I get is like a bad Harley, like a thumper. I can hear it, and I can feel the "thumping" in my legs, hands, and butt. To get rid of it, I have to roll the throttle faster as if I'm trying to accelerate rapidly or downshift with my thumb.

I tested two other NCs with DCT (one of them was the same year), and their process of changing gears in D-mode was much, much smoother.

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I had my service done last weekend, and I explained the issue to the technician. They reset and "re-learned" the ECU, but it didn't help.

While I was servicing my motorcycle I test-rode a 2015 NC700X with manual transmission and found this:
1) I realized that several "noises" that I thought were caused by the DCT are actually caused by the NC700X engine itself and have nothing to do with the DCT (relief)
2) The manual NC700X and the DCT version of the same motorcycle in M-mode are almost identical in terms of behavior, noise, and vibration, with the only difference being the way you change gears, of course.

 

[Afan]

The 2013 model NC700X has a D mode and one S mode. It does not have “3 different sport settings”.

For my way of riding I wish I have something like (D+S)/2

 

[Afan]

What I have noticed (or believe I notice) on my 21 DCT is if I'm more aggressive with the throttle, ie: faster rotation, further rotation, it shifts later ....... if I'm easier with the throttle ie: slower rotation not as far rotation, it shifts earlier without having to resort to using the modes for different shift behavior. If I want to ride a little aggressively, I just get aggressive with the throttle, plus of course I can always use the shift paddles too even in automatic mode.

You noticed it right, it's the same on my 2013 NC so it must be correct for all NCs. "Faster rotation" means you want to speed up, kind of ASAP. In that case the DCT doesn't switch the gears immediately. I think you can reach 45mph still in 3rd or 4th gear. And when "slow rotate" the throttle the gears are changed "standard" speed.

 

[Afan]

That sound is bizarre. Mine has never made that noise... but it is not DCT. I would look at a valve adjustment, clean the fuel injectors, check the spark plugs, and test the coils. Granted that's a lot of work on this bike just to get to some of those components.

I serviced my bike last weekend and talked to the technician and the only thing he suggested is resetting/re-learning ECU. It didn't help though.

 

[Afan]

Only time I use D is on the highway. In town D wants to be in to high of gear. I guess I like to always be on the front edge of the power band.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but D on highway and 6th gear in S2 are the same, right?

 

[Afan]

I can't find this option on the Forum: how many NC owners are in Iowa? Maybe we can meet once a year?
Is there an Annual National Meet of NC owners in US?

 

[dduelin]

I rode 165 miles today and at times I was in D, S, or Manual depending on what I was asking of the bike at the time. It's just me but learning to exploit the full benefits of DCT means learning to move fluidly between the auto modes and manual vs auto. Putting a DCT in D Auto and expecting it to run smoothly at all times is a rider education issue IMO. Look in the owner's manual for the shift change points recommended by Honda. If you have a manual NC and shifted at those speeds you'd be complaining too but you don't use those shift points if you have mechanical sympathy and can feel when an engine wants a gear change. If you feel that from the bike you change the gear or change the throttle setting.

The engine hasn't changed much from day one. It's a parallel twin with a 270 degree crankshaft and lives its entire life at slow to medium rpms compared to the average motorcycle engine power band. If we had a nickel for every thread the last 10 years noting how rough the engine is we could fund an Iowa NC Riders Reunion with free hotel rooms for everybody. I've had both a DCT and a manual NC700X. I do prefer the DCT with this bike but it means I have to shift it manually at times. With a manual I'd rarely if ever slow to the minimum speed for that gear and then roll on throttle and expect the engine to respond with vigor. That includes any one of the bikes I own now or of the 30 or so bikes and manual transmission cars I have owned. Want smooth powerful acceleration? Then shift down a gear or three and let the engine operate higher up in the power band. If you slow to 37 mph in 6th and ease the throttle open it's likely the transmission will not downshift but if you rapidly open the throttle it will downshift at least 2 gears and possibly 4. Ease the throttle open in 6th at 37 and it thumps, bumps, and shakes. They all do, at least all three NCs I have owned.

 

[Afan]

I rode 165 miles today and at times I was in D, S, or Manual depending on what I was asking of the bike at the time. It's just me but learning to exploit the full benefits of DCT means learning to move fluidly between the auto modes and manual vs auto. Putting a DCT in D Auto and expecting it to run smoothly at all times is a rider education issue IMO. Look in the owner's manual for the shift change points recommended by Honda. If you have a manual NC and shifted at those speeds you'd be complaining too but you don't use those shift points if you have mechanical sympathy and can feel when an engine wants a gear change. If you feel that from the bike you change the gear or change the throttle setting.

The engine hasn't changed much from day one. It's a parallel twin with a 270 degree crankshaft and lives its entire life at slow to medium rpms compared to the average motorcycle engine power band. If we had a nickel for every thread the last 10 years noting how rough the engine is we could fund an Iowa NC Riders Reunion with free hotel rooms for everybody. I've had both a DCT and a manual NC700X. I do prefer the DCT with this bike but it means I have to shift it manually at times. With a manual I'd rarely if ever slow to the minimum speed for that gear and then roll on throttle and expect the engine to respond with vigor. That includes any one of the bikes I own now or of the 30 or so bikes and manual transmission cars I have owned. Want smooth powerful acceleration? Then shift down a gear or three and let the engine operate higher up in the power band. If you slow to 37 mph in 6th and ease the throttle open it's likely the transmission will not downshift but if you rapidly open the throttle it will downshift at least 2 gears and possibly 4. Ease the throttle open in 6th at 37 and it thumps, bumps, and shakes. They all do, at least all three NCs I have owned.

Dave,
please don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about the NC700X DCT in general. The thread was about my concerns regarding my 2013 NC700X DCT.
If I remember correctly, the number of defective products leaving a factory in China is about 10% and in Japan about 2% (these statistics are several years old). So, I'm simply trying to determine if my NC is part of the 2% with issues. Or if the bike is entirely fine and the issue is - me. If it falls within the 2%, I'm also looking for advice on how to potentially fix it, if it's fixable at all.

 

[670cc]

Dave,
please don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about the NC700X DCT in general. The thread was about my concerns regarding my 2013 NC700X DCT.
If I remember correctly, the number of defective products leaving a factory in China is about 10% and in Japan about 2% (these statistics are several years old). So, I'm simply trying to determine if my NC is part of the 2% with issues. Or if the bike is entirely fine and the issue is - me. If it falls within the 2%, I'm also looking for advice on how to potentially fix it, if it's fixable at all.

Yours could be defective, or not. First, it would need to be decided or determined that the thumping and lagging (lugging?) is a defect or not a defect. To some degree, Honda has designed this behavior into the motorcycle, even (I think) admitting so by calling it “character“. So maybe the question is, does your motorcycle have normal character, or is it outside normal character?

As I said before, I’ve had two 2012 NC700X motorcycles, with serial numbers less than 200 apart. One shook more than the other, which annoyed me. I did valve adjustments and all the usual adjustments/maintenance. I even replaced the fuel injectors. It still shook and vibrated too much for my taste. I got rid of it and kept the smoother one.

 

[Afan]

... Ease the throttle open in 6th at 37 and it thumps, bumps, and shakes. They all do, at least all three NCs I have owned...

This is what's gonna calm me down, what I wanted and needed to hear.

 

[Afan]

... I’ve had two 2012 NC700X motorcycles, with serial numbers less than 200 apart. One shook more than the other, which annoyed me....
... I got rid of it and kept the smoother one.

With your and Dave's comments I think I (finally) got it. I have a good bike that I have to get used to it, even after 6 years
Thanks

 

[T S N]

Mine is the same, I call it the little diesel.
82000 miles so far must be ok or it would have broken by now

 

[the Ferret]

82k, thats awesome

 

[Afan]

Mine is the same, I call it the little diesel.
82000 miles so far must be ok or it would have broken by now

True.

 

[Vito33]

If the engine has felt the same for all those miles, from beginning to now, I doubt it has a mechanical issue. I know from my experience owning two different NC700Xs, that one unit can be smoother running than another, with no obvious explanation. I quickly grow tired of shaky, noisy engines, and I understand how you can reach a point of not enjoying the ride anymore.

Your last paragraph suggests (as expected) that gear choice affects the engine behavior. Honda DCT programming for D mode is what it is, and in my opinion, not ideal. While it might sound like an overly simplistic suggestion, but why not just ride it in S mode, or manual mode? In manual mode you will be in full control, so you can run the engine in it’s smoother RPM zones.

Same problem I had with my 2014 DCT, but I improved the reacceleration hesitation and some rattling by using premium fuel. It doesn't affect budget due to its excellent fuel consumption. But this DCT behavior won't go away, it' how it works. Honda may have improved it a lot by adding additional driving modes on the newer models. Also, I used to have a lot of fun by manually switching DCT gears, it's a joy to feel it quickly shifting on command (I ended up riding on AutoMode just for stop-and-go traffic).