Can happiness be found with DCT?

[Papamike]

to reply to the thread question : yes without any doubt

 

[Brillot2000]

I had to simultaneously upshift and brake at times to set up a corner but I learned to do it and still rode in the fast group and still got over 70 miles per gallon thrashing the bike. I never had a problem with the low redline but it did require relearning or learning new skills. I'm sure DCT riding is the same.

I can't keep the Tiger if I do this. The Tiger goes and the NC700XD replaces it just as the Tiger replaced my previous NCX. I'm not unhappy with the Tiger - that's just it - but of all the bikes I've been through I still miss the X more than any other. I worry I won't find the DCT as engaging to ride after a few thousand miles.

The DCT is just as engaging or less if you like. I constantly use the "+" & "-" paddles on NaNCy to increase the engagement, experience and pleasure of riding her.

The NC700XD is basically the same as the NC700X, the only difference is how the transmission is controlled. As I mentioned before, you have up to 3 different modes and ways to ride the bike to suit your mood. I find myself at times using all 3 modes on a single ride. I personally like the paddle controls and they are naturally placed for ease of use for me and many other DCT riders out there.

There is a Foot Pedal out there for DCTs, if that will sweeten the "Pot" for you.

[video=youtube;lo0CoE-dEls]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo0CoE-dEls[/video]

Fast-forward to 2:45 or slightly after to get to the meat of the matter.

Regarding the Dealer Test Ride, do it to get a feel for the bike. You are not obligated to purchase the bike after the Test Ride. Buy the other bike that you were telling us about. If the dude at the dealership give you lip about not buying his bike, simply respond "It's only business." You do not have to live with the guy.

When I bought "Sparky", took her over to my Honda Dealership to show her off to the owner. He and I are pretty cool about everything. There was on "Hard Feelings" after him seeing the bike. I told him that I will be bring "Sparky" in when she needs tires. He let out a grin...

It's how you approach things. He will realize that you are good customer if you continue to do business with them, even after you purchased the used one with all the Farkle you want for a lesser price. Him being a businessman, he will and should respect that.

You simply won't know until you get the bike.

 

[670cc]

Like Dave, I ride CVT scooters, too (we have 3 at in our fleet). I have no problem switching between a left hand clutch and a left hand brake. Nor do I have any problem going from shift lever to no shifter, although I occasionally "air shift" my Ruckus. I suspect Dave would have no problem adjusting to DCT on the fly or the quality of the shifter technology. The question, I think, is whether the DCT brain will operate the machine in the way he would like it to operate.

One other thing I find important. I use the clutch for more than shifting or stopping. If I transition from engine braking to acceleration, I pull the clutch a bit to remove the driveline snatch. I noticed on a recent DCT test that I was coasting toward a red light in first. The light turned green so I got back on the throttle. The bike lurched a bit as it took up the slack in the drive train. On a manual, I would have instinctively and automatically squeezed the clutch to smooth that transition.

There's also the advantage of using a clutch for low speed turn maneuvers to maintain fine control of speed. While the DCT does surprisingly well at low speed engagement, losing the hand clutch in that situation is something to consider.

 

[wildeone]

........nope.

 

[mreric]

Like Dave, I ride CVT scooters, too (we have 3 at in our fleet). I have no problem switching between a left hand clutch and a left hand brake. Nor do I have any problem going from shift lever to no shifter, although I occasionally "air shift" my Ruckus. I suspect Dave would have no problem adjusting to DCT on the fly or the quality of the shifter technology. The question, I think, is whether the DCT brain will operate the machine in the way he would like it to operate.

One other thing I find important. I use the clutch for more than shifting or stopping. If I transition from engine braking to acceleration, I pull the clutch a bit to remove the driveline snatch. I noticed on a recent DCT test that I was coasting toward a red light in first. The light turned green so I got back on the throttle. The bike lurched a bit as it took ip the slack in the drive train. On a manual, I would have instinctively and automatically squeezed the clutch to smooth that transition.

There's also the advantage of using a clutch for low speed turn maneuvers to maintain fine control of speed. While the DCT does surprisingly well at low speed engagement, losing the hand in that situation is something to consider.

you are right about that occasional lurch that the bike does. with practice i have pin point when and how to control it.

 

[dduelin]

Like Dave, I ride CVT scooters, too (we have 3 at in our fleet). I have no problem switching between a left hand clutch and a left hand brake. Nor do I have any problem going from shift lever to no shifter, although I occasionally "air shift" my Ruckus. I suspect Dave would have no problem adjusting to DCT on the fly or the quality of the shifter technology. The question, I think, is whether the DCT brain will operate the machine in the way he would like it to operate.

One other thing I find important. I use the clutch for more than shifting or stopping. If I transition from engine braking to acceleration, I pull the clutch a bit to remove the driveline snatch. I noticed on a recent DCT test that I was coasting toward a red light in first. The light turned green so I got back on the throttle. The bike lurched a bit as it took ip the slack in the drive train. On a manual, I would have instinctively and automatically squeezed the clutch to smooth that transition.

There's also the advantage of using a clutch for low speed turn maneuvers to maintain fine control of speed. While the DCT does surprisingly well at low speed engagement, losing the hand clutch in that situation is something to consider.

This is insightful as I use the clutch a lot without thinking about it not only for low speed maneuvers in the friction zone but also to eliminate driveline snatch during all kinds of riding. The autoclutch or CVT bikes I've owned do just fine in the friction zone by dragging brake against throttle. I'm sure one adapts as required and as already pointed out DCT is found in many high performance cars. It's coming.

 

[L.B.S.]

This is insightful as I use the clutch a lot without thinking about it not only for low speed maneuvers in the friction zone but also to eliminate driveline snatch during all kinds of riding. The autoclutch or CVT bikes I've owned do just fine in the friction zone by dragging brake against throttle. I'm sure one adapts as required and as already pointed out DCT is found in many high performance cars. It's coming.

I want you to buy a DCT for the simple reason of enjoying how much detail you put into your reports and general approach to stuff.

 

[Fuzzy]

You can find happiness with DCT but may have to give it a little time to get used to it.

If the price is right you have little to loose as you can always sell it to get you money back.

 

[670cc]

I just want to add that although I may appear negative about the DCT, I think it's really cool and I could happily live with one. I guess when it comes to motorcycles, the character of the engine, the ergos, comfort, looks, and the handling are more important. Whether the tranny is manual or automatic is pretty low on my priority list, and I couldn't justify paying much more for DCT. With years of experience, I shift manual gears using so little conscious thought, it might as well be automatic.

 

[mreric]

I just want to add that although I may appear negative about the DCT, I think it's really cool and I could happily live with one. I guess when it comes to motorcycles, the character of the engine, the ergos, comfort, looks, and the handling are more important. Whether the tranny is manual or automatic is pretty low on my priority list, and I couldn't justify paying much more for DCT. With years of experience, I shift manual gears using so little conscious thought, it might as well be automatic.

dont forget that DCT comes with ABS. that i think has a greater value. at least it is very important to me. ABS is very much needed in commuting riding.

 

[670cc]

dont forget that DCT comes with ABS. that i think has a greater value. at least it is very important to me. ABS is very much needed in commuting riding.

I agree. However when the 2012's came out, DCT/ABS was a $2000 (MSRP) upgrade. That was too much, in my opinion at the time, to justify for obtaining ABS. I would have happily paid $500 more to get ABS on a manual unit, but as we know that's not an option in the U.S.

When Russelville, Arkansas was selling 2014 DCT/ABS for $6K a while back, I would have jumped on that deal to get ABS had I not already owned an NC700.

 

[Lee Dodge]

I bought a DCT version earlier this year and my feelings are mixed. I'm rather surprised that I don't love it as much as I expected. I've ridden a manual version also. What I found was that it was shifting when I didn't want it to, specifically when your leaning into a corner on the entry it will down shift because you've rolled off the throttle. Because its not a throttle by wire system there is no rev matching and it jerks a little on the down shifts and upsets your cornering line slightly. You can work around it by toggling a downshift before corner entry but then you might as well be doing it with a manual trans. And that's the other thing. I found I really missed downshifting. Its fun to do rev matched downshifts. I also miss the clutch for low speed maneuvering. I bought the DCT primarily to get ABS. I found the manual version a little more fun to ride but not enough to give up the ABS. If it sounds like I'm down on the DCT, I'm not. It's just that it was a more different riding experience than I anticipated and you should be aware of that.

 

[MichaelJohn]

Kinda funny, its good enough for Formula One drivers but if you use it on a motorcycle your just a "scooter" rider.

Yeah but all the MotoGP bikes now have quick shifters and even though they are not true automatics, Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez seem to do just fine with clutchless shifting. And no one is calling MotoGP bikes "scooters".

I too was sceptical about not having a manual tranny. I started in the 60's with a manual and all of my vehicles for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles have been manuals. I've been a fast car and bike guy all my life and I've loved rowing through the gears. Then in 2008 I bought a BMW M3 with a DCT and I was converted from the Church of Manual. You just can't argue with technological superiority. I traded the M3 in 2 years ago for an M5 (wanted more luxury, I'm getting older) and I went with the DCT again. I must admit there are times when I miss shifting manually, but only maybe 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time I am quite happy to let the DCT crack off perfect lightning-fast shifts every time - whether in manual or auto mode.

When I got back into motorcycling after a long hiatus I had no qualms about going clutchless. I think it's even better on a motorcycle which takes far more concentration and awarenes than a car. For me, not having to worry about shifting makes the ride more pleasurable and I think safer. One less thing for my brain to have to deal with, and that much more brain available for situational awareness. It allows me to concentrate solely on piloting the bike which I find to be a real joy. I have shifted gears manually for 40+ years - that's enough for me. I think the DCT is wonderful and I hope to see it from other motorcycle manufacturers someday.

 

[DirtFlier]

[...The ABS is a plus on this bike. I also fell it was warranted as some riders will panic and will not downshift to engine break while braking. The PCM and ABS take care of this all for you in these situations...Bruce]


If you're already applying the rear brake in an emergency stop, downshifting is of little value and can cause the rear tire to break traction and skid because there is so little weight on the rear. My 2013 model drops to 5th quickly at around 35 mph but doesn't go all the way to first until I'm almost stopped. If you were using the automatic as an aid to slow during normal riding in D, what it provides in engine braking is nil but you'll still end up in 1st at the stop light which is what you want anyhow.

On a recent trip in Southern Ohio (landscape similar to WV), I found the DCT invaluable when negotiating tight, uphill turns where a downshift on a manual clutch model would result in losing too much momentum and it was so smooth that I wouldn't hesitate to use that function (-) in the rain on that same uphill curve.

I also own a NT700V bought new, now with 53k miles, and ride it regularly so there is always some minor retraining involved when I initially take off on my NC700XD. I've been riding steadily since 1968 and have never owned a scooter although I've ridden them. Rather than a bother, I find it stimulating that I have to think a bit more about what I'm doing on my NC but after a few minutes it becomes natural.

ps. In ref to the VFR1200 being the first model with DCT, I thought it was first offered on the NM1 scooter in Japan?

 

[Fuzzy]

dont forget that DCT comes with ABS. that i think has a greater value. at least it is very important to me. ABS is very much needed in commuting riding.

This is why I bought a DCT. Took a risk to get the ABS. Quickly got used to it and never looked back. Override with push buttons corrects any issues I might have had. I down shift prior to a curve. I down shift prior to passing to be quicker up to passing speed. If I want engine braking I down shift.

Test riding bikes at Daytona reminded me I don't miss the clutch, especially in city traffic. Stopped at a light I can straighten up and stretch my arms. Light changes just grab a handful of throttle and go.

 

[scotseam]

I have been riding for 40yrs. Operating a clutch is automatic (ha,ha) to me. I purchased a DCT for the ABS but have found out I love it. there will be a learning curve involved, but I'm sure you can adapt quickly. This engine, with the low redline and abundant torque is perfect for the DCT. I use manual mode for twisties and highway and sport mode in the city. I find drive to be a little dull, but to each his own. Good luck finding the right ride for you.

 

[SergeantChuck]

Well you have 36 comments now so maybe a guy who has never ridden a DCT and does not own one is Ok to make a comment.

My dealer didn’t have a DCT when it came time to buy this bike. I didn't even plan on buying the NC (good salesman). I have wondered what it would be like and I can see the benefits. I had an opportunity to trade in my bike and get a DCT but chose against it. This is why.

I am a control freak. I like having as much control over my vehicle as possible. I like feeling connected. I thought about this as I have thought over my jeep purchases. I know this is not a car so the comparison isn’t the same but it is the same concept to me. I have owned many jeeps over the years. A couple times I made the mistake of buying an automatic transmission and regretted that choice until I traded it in and got my stick back. I did not want that same feeling with a motorcycle purchase.

It’s a personal preference thing. Harold made a comment the other day that I can connect with. I am an adrenaline junkie. I love speed and power. Harold made the statement about having control over the RPM’s and that being the fun part of riding at times. That really speaks to me and is 100 percent how I feel. That isn’t so easy to do with a bike that redlines at 6K RPM and has limited horse power but it is what it is. The thing is, I still have control and I am still more connected to the bike.

Call me weird, it is how I feel. I will ride a clutch bike until I can’t just like I’ll buy a jeep with a stick until I can’t.
Based off other posts I would definitely test ride the bike and take it on some twisties. It seems that is where a majority of the complaints arise. In my opinion, this is where having a clutch is the most fun.

I have read a lot of your posts over the years. I know you know this dealer well. I’d just tell him straight out, I’m not sure I’ll like the transmission and I really need to test it before I make a decision on the purchase. You’ve been a repeat customer over the years and they will probably not even blink an eye.
I’m glad that everyone that owns a DCT is in love with it and you may likely fall into that group after the first 50 miles.

 

[dduelin]

Yeah but all the MotoGP bikes now have quick shifters and even though they are not true automatics, Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez seem to do just fine with clutchless shifting. And no one is calling MotoGP bikes "scooters".

If I'm not mistaken Honda tested DCT boxes 5 or 6 years ago but Dorna banned the technology. Otherwise the factory bikes from Honda and Yamaha would have raced with them in 2010 (??) and probably Suzuki and Ducati would have had to step up to them which would have likely spurred the DCT revolution on two wheels that happened earlier on four wheels. The 2010 VFR1200F DCT was kind of the right platform but at the absolute worst time, when free falling into a seemingly bottomless recession, to introduce a revolutionary change. If the recession hadn't happened and Pedrosa and Stoner killed the field on DCT machines I think the sport bike community would have embraced DCT - and in a time when Honda and others were introducing a new supersport and liter bike every two years. Unthinkable now! History is what happens when you make other plans. DCT was banned and the VFR1200 tanked so the performance aspect now takes second stage today to the safety and ease of use aspects of DCT that the New Concept project team took and ran with.

 

[Beemerphile]

I have ridden a couple of BMW bikes with the Shift Assist Pro system. That, to me, seems like the best compromise. I am leaning more and more towards an EFM auto-clutch conversion as the solution. A huge advantage for me is not to have to re-farkle my current ride.

BTW, Porsche has no trouble showcasing the performance advantages of a DCT. It helps greatly though if you call it a Doppel Kupplungen!

 

[davidc83]

I have both a Suzuki C50 Boulevard and the NC700X. Even though the NC gets 25% better MPG, my main commuter bike to work is my C50 (78 miles round trip with 60+ being interstate). Yesterday in this dang construction traffic in Louisville (due to building new Ohio River bridge), it took me 45 minutes to go 10 miles. I was on the C50 and wished I had been on the Honda, and then I think I would have been wishing I had a DCT. The C50 has a stiff, very still clutch (always has from mile 1 on the ODO) and hasn't loosened in 74,000+ miles. My clutch hand was aching, hurting, cramping by the time I got on the Indiana side of the bridge. In these situations, I do wish I had the DCT...