Can happiness be found with DCT?

[dduelin]

This subject has been discussed at length but I want to open a new conversation. I sold my manual transmission NC700X a year ago thinking I might have another NCX at some point but I would try the DCT version next time. I rode my 6 speed model over two years 29,000 miles and was quite familiar with it. Great bike and I still miss it so....

The time may be at hand again and a low mileage 2014 DCT is at hand and the price is close to right. I'm still concerned I may not like not shifting but darn American Honda I want ABS and the only way to get it is to buy a DCT version. My local dealer, a great one who I really like, will let me test ride a 2015 DCT bike but the one I want is fitted out with luggage and a few things that make the deal sweet. I don't want to lead my friendly local dealer on then buy the other one. Yeah, I'm a Boy Scout but I will have to see those guys again and I don't want to feel like I was less than honest in order to con a test ride. Plus a test ride will be 50 mile or less and I won't get a lot of time to try the different DCT shifting options.

Anyway, I'm seeking opinion from riders of DCT bikes and I'd have to give more weight to those that have experience with manual shift bikes and the DCT.

Thanks!

 

[Beemerphile]

You can't con a test ride. They are freely given in the hopes that you will be too in love with it to walk out the door.

I'm interested in the discussion. When I went shopping for the NC, my dealer was unwilling to stock a DCT because he thought it was too expensive to sell. He only had the manual and I didn't want to order one without trying it out. Many times since (and as my arthritis has worsened) I think I made the wrong choice. Being a cheap bastid though, I am more likely to have an EFM auto-clutch built for the one I have. I am an ABS agnostic, so it is all about the clutch for me.

 

[Deckyon]

I can drive a manual bike. I can drive a manual car. Those are needed and necessary skills, especially for when the zombie apocalypse comes. But in all seriousness, I just dont want to. I had a manual transmission in my car for the first 11 years I drove. I was tired of it, wanted to worry about other things rather than shifting and manipulating a clutch.

I was looking for a bike, I was very intrigued by the DCT. It meant I didnt have to worry about manipulating a clutch even on a motorcycle. The fact I can sit in traffic and not strain my wrist by on and off motions with the clutch as we sit in stop and go traffic getting out and around the city is priceless. It was one less thing to worry about when trying to maintain a constant look out for all the cagers out to displace me.

On the open road in twisties, I throw it in S mode and just enjoy the ride. Even if it happens to shift in the middle of a curve, it is barely perceptible. I do like, when maintaining speed through a turn, and as you roll on the throttle coming out, it will shift to bring all the power you need to pop into the next turn. It is really something that needs a test ride to experience and understand.

Would I ever buy a manual motorcycle? Only if I absolutely had no other choice. And since the AT is coming out with a DCT model, I do not see myself having to, at least in the short term. The only exception would be a pit bike for AMA Vintage Days.

 

[Shad]

To answer your question. Yes.

 

[670cc]

Well, I could technically be excluded from the poll group because I don't own a DCT, but I have test ridden them over a dozen times, from the VFR to all of the NC700 derived machines except the Integra.

My finding every time on the NC700 machines is that I don't like the shift points that the programming choses. Something between D and S is needed. While the automatic downshifting when coming to a stop is a very convenient feature, the timing of auto upshifting annoys me. Near the latter part of every test ride, I'd find myself strictly in manual mode and doing it "my way".

Perhaps the next version of DCT. like on the Africa Twin, will improve on the programming.

 

[Harald]

Although the NC700XD is my wife's primary bike, I do ride it occasionally. I have many 100's of thousands of miles on mostly sport bikes including my current FJR1300, but they've all been manual trani's. I must say that the DCT works very well and has been a God send for my wife with her bad left ankle. I would even consider the DCT in a future bike I buy as long as it has more power than the NC because I crave the adrenaline rush that can only be satisfied with high horsepower at high rpm.

With that said, most of the issues I have with the DCT could be dealt with if I had more time on the bike. Although you probably don't have this problem in FL, we do have lots of hills around here and my days starts with numerous tight corners going downhill from my home. Because the DCT shifts on it's own, I find it wanting to upshift as I'm off the throttle setting up for the next corner and this requires braking or paddle shifting down to be at the proper speed for the corner. An obvious work around is to put it in manual so that it stays in the selected gear, but then I run into the other problem I have with the NC and that's the too low rev limiter. Whenever I've tried manual mode, I end up slamming into the rev limiter because I'm accustomed to riding bikes at higher rpm because that's where the fun starts! This is obviously an issue that would be cured with more time on the bike to get used to low rpm limit.

I'd say, go for the test ride and see if you like it. Having previous, extensive experience on the NC and it's rpm limitations I think you might adapt to the trani quickly and like it. If I had to spend lots of time in traffic, I know I'd really like not having a clutch lever.

 

[mreric]

I find the DCT is great, but could use some refinement.. it is honda's first version with this engine. never ridden VRF.

my understanding that the new africa twin DCT had taken DCT to a new level.

 

[ste7ios]

Definitely yes!

 

[Brillot2000]

This subject has been discussed at length but I want to open a new conversation. I sold my manual transmission NC700X a year ago thinking I might have another NCX at some point but I would try the DCT version next time. I rode my 6 speed model over two years 29,000 miles and was quite familiar with it. Great bike and I still miss it so....

The time may be at hand again and a low mileage 2014 DCT is at hand and the price is close to right. I'm still concerned I may not like not shifting but darn American Honda I want ABS and the only way to get it is to buy a DCT version. My local dealer, a great one who I really like, will let me test ride a 2015 DCT bike but the one I want is fitted out with luggage and a few things that make the deal sweet. I don't want to lead my friendly local dealer on then buy the other one. Yeah, I'm a Boy Scout but I will have to see those guys again and I don't want to feel like I was less than honest in order to con a test ride. Plus a test ride will be 50 mile or less and I won't get a lot of time to try the different DCT shifting options.

Anyway, I'm seeking opinion from riders of DCT bikes and I'd have to give more weight to those that have experience with manual shift bikes and the DCT.

Thanks!

Let me answer this question from a rider's and owner's prospective. I also have over 28 years of riding experience on a wide range of bikes.

Being an Eletro-Mechanical Engineer I am drawn to new and interesting technologies, however many I cannot afford on my own. When Honda came out with the DCT with the VFR1200, I admired it from afar. When I first saw the NC700X I knew that this was a bike I wanted to get, what really attracted to the bike was the frunk in the beginning. As I dug in deeper I found out about the DCT offering, I was a little skeptical at first about it. I set off to do all the research that I could do without riding one. I read reviews on-line and watched every video that I could find on YouTube regarding reviews of this bike with the DCT. After watching all these videos and reading all those reviews, I made my final decision to go with the DCT on my purchase. When I was finally able to ride this bike, I was sold on the DCT and I wanted to tell everyone how great it is.

Here are a few high points that found out after owner a DCT bike:

1. First thing I noticed the heightened level of freedom. There are 3 modes one can ride this bike in, as you already know "D-Mode", "S-Mode" and "MT-Mode". Each of these has their use and it will be up you to decide how us them. I wrote many post on the subject, one can search them out if they desire to.
2. While riding on a scenic route in the mountains, I do not have to constantly worry about having to shift gears when warranted. I find "S-Mode" is best suited for this situation.
   
3. I love the ability to "Manually Override" the shifting, especially when downshifts are needed. The system will monitor itself and limit shifts where will create issue with the system and ignores those request.
4. Once you have trained your body to find all the controls associated with the DCT, "+", "-", "AT/MT" it is a breeze to manipulate requiring minimal thought while riding.
   
5. I find the bike to accelerate a lot quicker as you can hold the throttle wide-open without having to interrupt the power to engage the clutch and then shift the gears. The system takes care of this automatically. Throttle position is important when it comes to up & down shifting as well as what mode you are in.
   
6. In "MT-Mode" you are still subject to the Rev Limiter, when it comes on it seems like the end of the world. In either of the automatic modes one does not have to worry about that.
7. The bike's CG is really low when compared to anything else that I previously rode. It is easy to throw that 505 lbs around the twisties without any effort.
8. Is the MPG any better or worst when compared to the manual version. This a question open to debate. My response to is, It depends on how you want to ride it. Ride it like a (not to offend anyone here) Senior Citizen the MPG will be greater. If someone wants to ride like a "Bat of out Hell", well the MPG will suffer as a result.
   
9. Over 95% of the aftermarket accessories out in the market can be used on the DCT version.
   
10. There's one more maintenance item on this bike, the transmission filter. It adds about 5 minutes to the average oil change and about $10-15 to the cost.
    
11. The ABS is a plus on this bike. I also fell it was warranted as some riders will panic and will not downshift to engine break while braking. The PCM and ABS take care of this all for you in these situations.
12. Anyone that has never been on a bike can ride it without the anxieties of knowing how to work a hand clutch and foot shifter.

I hope this more in depth information that you are looking for to help you make a decision to "Come to the Darkside!!!"

 

[TigerDude]

I think it's more about image than anything. Face it, bikes are about how we look on them & we don't want to look like a wuss. Sports cars are the same way - we link our masculinity to how we drive around. I'll tell you I abandoned the manual years ago & didn't even mind regular torque converter autos. Now that I can get DCTs on cars I'm beyond sold. If it's good enough for a Ferrari 458, it's good enough for me.

 

[wickerman]

Kinda funny, its good enough for Formula One drivers but if you use it on a motorcycle your just a "scooter" rider.

 

[TCRider]

Excellent write up Bruce!

 

[johnakay]

from a current owner of a DCT I can tell you its one of the most pleasant bikes I've ever ridden.
as for the 'D' mode yes we moan a little of it changing gears early.
the 'D' mode is perfect for highways or motorway as we call it here.
hence!you have the sport mode which is ideal for a bit of fun riding..
manual mode well for me what the point,if I wanted manual I'd go back to gear chang bike.
but thats just my opinion.
if in doubt go for a test ride,surely the dealer in question would let you if not then look else where.

 

[Brillot2000]

Excellent write up Bruce!

THX!!!

That comes from my engineering background and all those years of writing procedures and other documents.

I hope that Dave takes that all into consideration, then will not regret "Coming to the Darkside"...

This will be Dave after getting a DCT.

 

[hojo]

Every time I come to stop and go traffic I love the DCT all the more. I also have a Gold Wing in the stable and if Honda comes out with a DCT on it....

 

[Brillot2000]

Every time I come to stop and go traffic I love the DCT all the more. I also have a Gold Wing in the stable and if Honda comes out with a DCT on it....

Just give them time. Honda is most likely testing the acceptance of their DCT Technology before "Going Nuts" with it. If I were calling the shots, I'd have an offering it on every Honda model made. Let the people decide if they want a CB300F or GL1800 with DCT.

Honda had limited the DCT offering to CTX700 and NC700 products here in the US, they are basically use the same engine. If you look it this way, they really blocked up the market offering. There's a small percentage of people that only purchase these models with the DCT. The 2010 VFR12000 was a marketing experiment to say the least and "Bombed Out Terribly". The announcement to offer the DCT on the new 2016 African Twin shows that Honda wanting to branch out this technology to the masses, however they need more models worldwide to gain acceptance.

For me it's too late, I recently bought a Zero SR, which is 100% electric motorcycle to commute to work. The advantage is that I can charge it at work at "No Charge".

There's my take on the subject.

 

[dduelin]

I should have titled this "Can I find happiness with DCT?" Of course it's found for many and the last I read was that in all markets about 70% of buyers given the choice are buying DCT equipped models. Thanks to everyone one giving input and I hope there is more. I was pretty much in this same decision loop when I bought my 6 speed in 2012. I was intrigued by the dual clutch transmission but wasn't sure it would be as fun for me as a manual transmission over the long run. I knew the devil of shifting and the devil of DCT was an unknown. Still is.

I think that anyone riding an NC700X doesn't tie up lot of self-worth or manliness in the choice of bike. This decision of mine doesn't have anything to do with that - I have a twist and go scooter in the stable that I ride without regard to how I look on it. The Elite 80 scooter is a lot of fun on roads suited for it and in three years I've ridden it over a 1000 miles going mostly to the grocery store. I endured as we all do the slings and arrows of the motorcycling community that derided the low power and low redline of the NC engine as well as the scooter-like lack of shifting, even the scooter-like frame and gas tank location but we know what they don't. They don't know how well the NC does a lot of things. It handles great, it's easy to ride, it's easy to maintain, the power delivery is easy to live with and suited perfectly to the way many of use actually use a motorcycle engine. We don't rev them high and hard very often and all of the available power is found in the low and mid range. And the frunk...of all the things I miss about the NCX the frunk is right up there #1. I toured on mine long distances and did a couple of Iron Butt rides on it. I took trips to the mountains to ride with my sport bike and sport touring friends and remember the surprise of bumping the rev limiter going around a fast downhill corner when engine braking didn't keep me from going past 6500 rpm - how I had to simultaneously upshift and brake at times to set up a corner but I learned to do it and still rode in the fast group and still got over 70 miles per gallon thrashing the bike. I never had a problem with the low redline but it did require relearning or learning new skills. I'm sure DCT riding is the same.

I can't keep the Tiger if I do this. The Tiger goes and the NC700XD replaces it just as the Tiger replaced my previous NCX. I'm not unhappy with the Tiger - that's just it - but of all the bikes I've been through I still miss the X more than any other. I worry I won't find the DCT as engaging to ride after a few thousand miles.

 

[drdubb]

I'm liking my DCT. The more I ride, the more I like it. My only issue irgos. That damn seat tilting foward is a pain, but an Air hawk pad fixes that.

 

[Deckyon]

The one thing I think is a misnomer is the bike is "slow". Maybe in straightaways or for long highways, but considering the speed limits average 70 mph here in the US (overall, nevada and a few others, stay down), there isnt a huge point in anything much larger. I bought my bike first as a commuter. To ride city streets at rush hour and to run around town. It was only after I got the bike that I found out about the whole world of touring and adv riding. Rarely do I need to go faster than 70 MPH, and that is only on expressways, and I am rarely on them anyway.

As for twisties, hell, there is only so fast one can go in a hairpin, no matter what their engine size may be.

Does a DCT take different thinking and new muscle control? Yep. Is it learnable? Yep. Is it worth it? Only you know. Will you be able to without riding it? Highly doubting.

I took a leap of faith when I got mine, skipping out on the manual bikes all together. And I am glad I took it. Can I still get on a manual and go, yep. Even when my toes dont touch the ground on both sides (KTM 1290 ADV is a damn tall bike for someone with a 30" inseam). Will I ever buy a manual? Short term, nope. Well, other than a little pit bike for AMA Vintage Days, but I am looking to get my little Razz running again and throw some dirt tires on it.

Good luck with your decision. As hard as these are to make, it is still a fun process. Even more fun once you start testing.

 

[Deckyon]

Just added an airhawk, and now still tweaking it for my arse. It is infinitely better than the gel pad I previously had, which only worked for a bit longer than the naked seat.