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DCT Issue

Update #11 (Day 67). Dealer replaced PGM-FI Unit, Clutch Assembly, performed oil and filter change, tested the bike 27 miles. I was presented with a $2,265 bill which they adjusted to $951 (they credited $220 for the last "repair" and wrote the 7 hrs in diagnostics time and the clutch assembly under warranty). Road it 40 miles over the week-end, first day (25 miles) went fine but today, same issue popped up again! I managed to creep back home with DCT stuck in 4th gear. I have had a good interaction with my Honda's PowerSports Customer Care senior case manager, they seem to want to help. I'll see what he says tomorrow...

Here are a couple videos of my LCD display status and DCT clicking noises...
Honda NC700X DCT Failure - YouTube
Honda NC700X DCT Failure #2 - YouTube
 
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No mention of shifter pin yet. Just waitin’ . . .
 
I wish that this site would allow to use of adult language... I am lost in words what to say...
Your first video is too short to "read" DTC code from gear indicator blinking. Do you know what is it?
 
lootzyan said:
I wish that this site would allow to use of adult language... I am lost in words what to say...
Your first video is too short to "read" DTC code from gear indicator blinking. Do you know what is it?
Click to expand...

No code, it just flashes at a consistant rate, about every sec or so.
 
670cc said:
No mention of shifter pin yet. Just waitin’ . . .
Click to expand...

Hard to believe they did not look at the shifter pin when they replaced the clutch assembly????? It’s sitting right there.


Edit.......ok the shifter was checked.
 
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I wouldn't pay for PCM replacement without detailed description of diagnosis:

"UNIT HAD CODES RELATED TO AN ECU PROBLEM" - What codes?
In Service Manual there is only one DTC 84-1 - "CPU in the PCM malfunction - Faulty PCM - Gearshift system stops" - meaning: if this would happen, there no way to operate bike.
 
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Once the bike is stuck in gear, bike is inoperable indeed. I doubt the dealer is gonna want it back again, they claimed that Honda is not covering any of the repairs and that they ate most of the costs from the last work order... I feel I am being boxed in a tight corner with little room to play if any. Hopefully, my Honda care case manager will come up with a plan B.
 
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PCM cannot be "sometimes bad". Just install your old PCM back and you would see the same problems. Ask Honda's technical support.
 
It's hard to read what you're experiencing telecam :(

By now it's obvious your dealer can't fix the problem. I'd ask Honda why you can't get repairs done in a reasonable manner. I've heard of other companies shipping bikes to their own faclities when a dealer's dropped the ball (or sending a technician to the shop). Ask if they're willing to buy your bike back (I don't think they will, but it might push them). One 'positive' is Honda is putting the DCT in their flagship models, the Africa Twin & Goldwing. Having these issues can hurt the DCT's reputation.
 
Honda never used to go to all that much trouble.
In the past they would have replaced the engine by now or the bike.
Maybe they know in these modern times people have reduced memory as a high number of new memory "insults" continue to bombard.
 
Therapy said:
Honda never used to go to all that much trouble.
In the past they would have replaced the engine by now or the bike.
Maybe they know in these modern times people have reduced memory as a high number of new memory "insults" continue to bombard.
Click to expand...



Think that’s a huge jump..........replace the engine and it still has the same issue ?????? Replacing the engine assumes the engine is the problem. That’s the huge jump........complete and thorough troubleshooting and detailed testing is what is missing so far. We are getting just little bits of info third hand. It does appear the dealer has no clue what is wrong. They jumped to the battery then to the PCM and then the clutch assembly as the failed part all appeared to wrong.

Replacing the bike would fix the problem but I don’t think this bike is under the factory warranty at this time.
 
what I don't get and throws me off is why the bike may run OK for 10 minutes, 20 minutes then BAM you get the flashing - indicator while the drive mode stills registers as D.

I would try things on my own still - what happens if you turn off the bike and restart it, move it back and forth... disconnect battery and try again? there's gotta be something weird as to why it can run OK for minutes and then back to your error, is it totally random? can you reproduce a pattern? is there a pattern... ?
 
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Yeah, the delayed fault is weird. It always seems to happen within 10-15 minutes of riding. I have tried many, many times all the above. the DCT and ECU resets, rocking bike back and forth and sideways, holding the brake down (that's a must do if engine starter is not responding), etc, etc.... I did not check any of the DCT sensors and cabling because I think that would be the responsibility of the dealer and I don't have the tools for this. At this point, my guts feeling is a faulty sensor or connection on the DCT system. No feed back from either Honda Customer Care or dealer today. Bike is now at home, stuck in 4th and not starting. I hope I don't have to throw it to the dump, she is a beauty!

IMG_8220.jpgIMG_8227.jpg
 

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Have a look at the posts of KoreanOP on this page.....

2017 Honda X-ADV | Page 72 | Adventure Rider

It appears that some countries with very hot temperatures are having issues shifting that seems to be heat related. While the temperatures in your area are not excessive it is possible that your problem could be temperature sensor related where the sensor is sending incorrect signals to the ECU when the motor or its oil heats up. Just clutching at a straw......
 
Hey guys, Griff may be onto something. If a thermostat was stuck in the closed position, after about 10 minutes, or heck the radiator fan not coming on after the bike gets up to temp, and begin to overheat, would it start having this kind of issues. The bike is fine after work is done to it for 10-15 minutes, just when the bike is getting up to high temps and radiator fan should be kicking on, thermostat should be opening up... sounds like something is overheating, either the engine, transmission or some sensor....
 
I agree that a heat related failure makes sense as a possible root cause. I would expect the firmware to be programmed to recognize sensor readings outside normal boundaries or inappropriate readings for the current operating state. However, an accuator device may not have fault detection or feedback. For example, perhaps the shiftdrum motor fails to step the drum when it gets hot, but there is no fault detection built in to detect if it doesn’t step, hence no error code. The transmission just gets stuck in gear. (Warning; this is not a specific analysis, rather it’s my mind just wandering.)
 
Griff said:
Have a look at the posts of KoreanOP on this page.....

2017 Honda X-ADV | Page 72 | Adventure Rider

It appears that some countries with very hot temperatures are having issues shifting that seems to be heat related. While the temperatures in your area are not excessive it is possible that your problem could be temperature sensor related where the sensor is sending incorrect signals to the ECU when the motor or its oil heats up. Just clutching at a straw......
Click to expand...

Griff, thanks for digging this up! There are plausible explanations in there, I definitely feel the issue is tied to the engine warming up but...

- It's pretty warm in DC now but just around 85 during day time so, nothing really extreme
- Once the bike cools off, would not the system automatically reset itself and make the bike operable again? Right now, it's disabled on my driveway, stuck in 4th gear. Ignition turns on, MIL lights goes out, no error code showing but the gear indicator shows 4th gear. Engine starter not working.
- And I suppose that if the ECU would receive an overheating or temperature fault, the dealer would have seen that in their computer?
 
670cc said:
I agree that a heat related failure makes sense as a possible root cause. I would expect the firmware to be programmed to recognize sensor readings outside normal boundaries or inappropriate readings for the current operating state. However, an accuator device may not have fault detection or feedback. For example, perhaps the shiftdrum motor fails to step the drum when it gets hot, but there is no fault detection built in to detect if it doesn’t step, hence no error code. The transmission just gets stuck in gear. (Warning; this is not a specific analysis, rather it’s my mind just wandering.)
Click to expand...

Makes sense. That would be then a lengthy troubleshooting process to try and replace each sensor/motor one at a time and ride the bike long enough and see if that fixes it. May as well get new wheels at this point :)
 
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