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Front brake dragging after new tire?

Sparkynutz

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I just put new tires on my new to me 2020 dct and cleaned the chain with a paintbrush a rag and diesel while the wheel was off and it was solid grime. Now when I take the bike for a ride its really noisy. I installed a centerstand. lubed up chain well and checked slack. It's right at 1.5". At first I thought the noise was engine or chain related but it was fairly quiet when running on the stand with the rear wheel in the air. It would not leave first gear. I assume that may get feedback from front wheel sensor to allow gear changes? I then lifted the front wheel up and spun by hand. There was a significant dragging noise. I tried multiple times loosing and re-tightening the shaft, banging on tire before tightening and it seems to rub less.... until I hit front brake then it drags like a bugger. I removed and reinstalled the caliper twice too. I didnt see any obvious issue and pads look evenly barely worn. Could the caliper be bad on a 1yr old 4k mile bike? Any other ideas on what to try?
 

dduelin

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The transmission needs information from the wheel speed sensors in order to shift gears. Not shifting out of 1st gear is an important clue. Check both wheel speed sensors for apparent damage and make sure they are bolted in place to just barely clear the pulse ring adjacent to the sensor. They must not touch the pulse ring on the wheel that is immediately adjacent to each sensor. Check the pulse rings for damage.

I wouldn't think the caliper is bad if it worked OK prior to removing the wheel. Since several items are removed and replaced in a sequence when changing a tire it's more likely something was assembled wrong.
 

670cc

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Problems like this have come up before. I don’t remember how they were resolved, but it may have been due to misplaced axle spacers or incorrect assembly. Here is a short thread on one past example: https://www.nc700-forum.com/threads...cers-seem-to-be-mismatched.18086/#post-228427

Without photos, I can’t be of much help. What I suggest is you remove the front wheel and be certain both axle spacers are the same thickness. I believe the parts list shows they are the same part number. Verify, per the parts illustration, that all parts are installed in their correct places. The relationship between the front brake disk and the caliper is mainly dependent on the axle spacer on that side of the wheel.
 

Sparkynutz

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The front spacers are same size so that isn't the issue. Something assembled wrong also shouldn't be the issue. Its an axle bolt that only installs one way, two identical sized spacers, and the caliper comes off with only two identical sized bolts into the fork. There is almost no slop in the caliper bracket and no shims or spacers in front of or behind that. I didn't remove the disc from the wheel and neither did the tire shop.
Thats why I'm leaning towards a bad caliper. I had one go bad on my Honda van years back but that had over 100k miles on it, not 4k this bike has.
 

Sparkynutz

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No. I made sure not to. Bike was hanging from ceiling untouched until wheels went back on.
After putting about 5 miles on the new tires and hearing a rubbing noise I parked it until further inspection. I had used the front and rear brakes at every stop so they should have re-centered themselves I would assume. After investigating I took the caliper off, pushed the piston in by hand for more clearance and re-installed. Almost no rubbing until I hit the brake lever then it drags again like the caliper is sticking.
Probably no warranty on it but sad it shouldn't have issues with less than 4k miles and only 1 year old. I don't know what else it could be but a sticking caliper piston.
 

670cc

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I don’t recall the the technical details, but it seems there is a return path for brake fluid within the master cylinder, which allows the caliper piston seals to pull the piston back slightly after brake application ceases. So you suggest that the caliper could be bad, but the master cylinder may also be the problem. If this vent doesn’t work, the caliper will sort of lock up after application.

I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to inspect the brake fluid condition, and perhaps bleed the hydraulics with fresh fluid. Why this would suddenly become a problem after a tire change is a mystery.
 

bigbird

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I would flush and bleed the front brake circuit, and make sure the piston seals are not twisted or damaged. You will always get some noise as the rotor very lightly contacts the pads after the first caliper removal. You can never get it perfect like it came from the factory. If you can spin the front wheel by hand and it goes around more than a half turn after letting go you will be fine. The other check is to drive the bike a couple of miles without using the front brake. Come to a stop by using only the back brake. Feel the front rotor. If it is very slightly warm you’re OK. Anything more means the pads are dragging excessively.
 

Sparkynutz

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I just took the bike on a short 8 mile trip with only minimal front brake useage. Front Disc was not hot and I didn't notice the noise. I did however have my helmet on and visor up unlike no helmet in town 2 mile ride when I heard the noise originally. I then took it on a longer 30 or so mile ride and didn't notice any noise in multiple stop and go's. The front brake disc was barely warm when I got home. I lifted front end up and it still rubs awfully noisy. I guess next step tomorrow is to take a short in town ride without helmet to see if that is just blocking the sound. Maybe I'll borrow my kids bike helmet to be safer than nothing. I don't have any brake fluid on hand but next chance I get I'll grab some to do a fluid change.
 

bigbird

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I just took the bike on a short 8 mile trip with only minimal front brake useage. Front Disc was not hot and I didn't notice the noise. I did however have my helmet on and visor up unlike no helmet in town 2 mile ride when I heard the noise originally. I then took it on a longer 30 or so mile ride and didn't notice any noise in multiple stop and go's. The front brake disc was barely warm when I got home. I lifted front end up and it still rubs awfully noisy. I guess next step tomorrow is to take a short in town ride without helmet to see if that is just blocking the sound. Maybe I'll borrow my kids bike helmet to be safer than nothing. I don't have any brake fluid on hand but next chance I get I'll grab some to do a fluid change.
If the front rotor is barely warm after a ride then you have nothing to worry about.
You will never reassemble the wheel/rotor/caliper combination as precisely as the factory did.
I went through this on my Goldwing,
When I first reassembled the front wheel/brake assembly (twin rotors) I also had a lot of friction noise when hand spinning the wheel.
After riding it and realizing that there was no significant friction drag ( rotors were not warm) between the rotors and pads with the brake not engaged, I forgot about it and didn't worry any more.
 

showkey

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This response from post 10 “You will never reassemble the wheel/rotor/caliper combination as precisely as the factory did.” HAS NO MERIT. There is no secret or special factory way to replace or setup the front wheel assembly ……other than follow the directions.

If :
the disk is not damage or bent and the spacers are in the correct place. ( if the wheel falls over or dropped on the rotor the rotor can be bent)
The brake pads are correctly placed in the caliper.
Caliper is mounted correctly on the fork leg. Caliper is able to slide on the caliper pins.

This call out in the shop manual is meant to center the caliper over the rotor and allow the fork legs to be parallel to each other before the pinch blots is tightened.



6B4AF379-4C03-4D13-A83A-C383A9C13CAB.jpeg
 
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TacomaJD

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The transmission needs information from the wheel speed sensors in order to shift gears. Not shifting out of 1st gear is an important clue. Check both wheel speed sensors for apparent damage and make sure they are bolted in place to just barely clear the pulse ring adjacent to the sensor. They must not touch the pulse ring on the wheel that is immediately adjacent to each sensor. Check the pulse rings for damage.
I believe he is talking about it not shifting out of 1st gear while the bike is stationary, up in the air. In which case, the front tire would not be spinning, thus not allowing the bike to shift out of first gear. This is completely normal, as both of mine do the same thing.

As for the brake issue, I'd be willing to bet this is the first time you've ever spun your front wheel in the air and listened to it? i.e. you are hearing something normal but it is strange to you because you haven't heard it before.

Most every bike in the world will have some dragging noises, but it sounds worse than it actually is. As bigbird stated, if you can spin the wheel, let go, and it makes nearly 1 revolution before stopping, there's nothing to worry about. Just because the brake lever isn't being depressed doesn't mean anything is actually retracting the pads from the rotor, it just means they aren't being pushed against the rotor.

If you have what would be considered EXCESSIVE dragging, it may be beneficial to remove the caliper, take the pads out, remove the pins and clean them with scotchbrite pad or some fine grit sandpaper, grease them, then reinstall everything. This will allow the pads to back off of the rotors more easily when no pressure is being exerted on them. Of course with as low of miles as your bike has, they really shouldn't be that dirty, but still will help if you clean and grease the pins.
 
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Ozzieflyer

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Just throwing it out there, but could it be tyre noise.
I had a similar thing after changing tyres and after doing all the checks you have done (except the spacer measurements, that is a new one for me), that is the only thing I could come up with.
It is also reported on other forums as an issue to some.
Does the noise sound as though it is metal on metal? Mine is like a deep humming noise.
What tyres did you fit?
 

NCX19

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Light dragging is normal. And the term dragging may be too much. If you spin the wheel .. ie bike lifted.. yiu will hear a light rub. Likely never hear it riding.
if yiu can feel the rub/drag or the sound is really obvious riding, I’d suspect an issue.
fouled pads. Dirt around piston. Residue in brake line and caliper.
when the piston isn’t being pushed there is no spring return. It’s just not being pushed, so let’s up a hair. Very minimal clearance between pad and rotor
Also the pads might not be moving freely in their slots (or pins). I use a film of high temp grease on the tabs of the pads so they slide easy in the caliper .. or if they use pins. Film on the pins. Forget which style on the bike. But you hopefully get the idea
Overall cleanliness is key
 

Bskicrash1

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First and foremost, TacomaJD gives good advice.
I understand this thread is a month old. But please, anyone who removes their own front wheel, please watch this Dave Moss video. Anyone here who rides track will understand this man is a legend. He explains things for the average joe to be able to maintain their machine on a blue collar budget. The NC has a fork leg that is held captive, and if not assembled correctly can cause the fork to bind when braking and or the front brake to drag when reassembled. I understand the nc doesn’t have a floating rotor, the front caliper is two pot, it’s directly mounted at a 90 degree to the right fork, uses pressure from outside to inside brake pad, but the left leg, if not positioned properly will cause brake pad drag and excessive brake chatter…. And our NC does cause excessive brake chatter if the fork is not properly set before the captive bolt is tightened. Please watch this video. It is worth more than its weight for the at home mechanic.

 
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