Front suspension upgrade!!

[kebrider]

Cogent Alternative

I have ridden quite a few miles on various bikes with Race Tech modified front ends and they always perform better than stock. I went the Cogent DDC (Drop-in Damper Cartridge) way with my NC because I wanted to try an alternative, less intrusive method to see if it was as good. I am glad I did. If I ever sell the NC (unlikely to never happen) I could take the DDC inserts with me and put the front suspension back to stock with nothing more than an oil change.

I spent this past Saturday riding with forum member DWL9911 to help him dial in his Cogent suspension as he was not satisfied with the firm ride. We swapped bikes and he now understands why I rave about my experience with Cogent. Ridden slowly the NC has a plush firmness that is an order of magnitude better than stock and at speed the bike can handle anything while tracking through bumpy turns with no drama. And my bike regularly runs with, and keeps up with, full on sport bikes around the Deals Gap area.

DWL9911 had some set-up issues with his that he can explain but I suspect his DCT will be riding and handling like mine in short order. One thing we learned is the incredible range of adjustability the Cogent rear shock has. If you order a soft version of the Cogent DDC's, combined with the Cogent shock you will get something you can tune for your taste. DDCs with Cogent supplied Ohlins fork springs are in our CB500F trainer/guest bike and I installed the NC shock on the bike and now the CB is an incredibly satisfying sport bike that we fight over to ride. A quality suspension improves everything you like about a bike, plus food tastes better and beer's colder...whats not to like?

KEB

 

[670cc]

Success! I rode 80 miles today with the newly tweeked Gold Valves. I was pleased to watch the front suspension travel over sharp bumps. The forks moved, the wheel stayed planted, and the chassis floated over like a magic carpet! Well, maybe not that smooth, but I was enjoying it so much I was aiming for the bumps just to watch it work. The front end also remained composed on washboard pavement.

Some serious twisties work will reveal whether I have it set too soft or just right. Truth is, where I live there are no twisties. Testing will wait until I get to the Smokies in a couple months. The smooth Appalachian roads and flat bumpy Illinois roads probably call for different suspension setups.

Now to work on the rear shock . . .

 

[sdouble]

dear 670cc,
did you buy additional spings for the emus ?
did you take pics of you set up once drilled ?

 

[Antarius]

dear 670cc,
did you buy additional spings for the emus ?
did you take pics of you set up once drilled ?

RaceTech provides specs with how to drill the holes. If I recall correctly it wants you to make the stock holes (both of them) 3/8" in diameter, and to make four additional holes every 1/2" inch both vertically and around the rod. In other words, they stagger around the rod at the same rate that they move vertically up the rod.

Something like that, if I recall.

I went to a machine shop that has accurate drill presses and the experience to make perfectly aligned holes and handed them a $20. They ripped it out in like 5 minutes.

 

[670cc]

dear 670cc,
did you buy additional spings for the emus ?
did you take pics of you set up once drilled ?

I did not replace the fork springs. Mine are still stock.

As for the springs on the emulators, two sets of different stiffness springs are provided with the kit, and RaceTech sent me another, lighter pair at no charge per my request.

I thought I took photos of the installation, but I'm still trying to locate them.

 

[sdouble]

I tried to get the lighter springs for my Racetech emulators.
Here is the answer I got from their tech guy

Hi,
The silver springs you might be referring to are 26 lb/in springs and would be extremely light in that application. If you care to purchase them the part number is FPEV VS026.
Terry Diederichs

 

[sdouble]

I just installed the race tech emulators, blue springs, 2 additional holes drilled in the emulators , SAE10 oil in. Extremely happy with the results. Fast compression is much more controlled now.

 

[Naked_Duc]

I have a week of staycation coming in mid July. It seems like the perfect time to do the GoldValve Emulator upgrade to the NCX that I've long been thinking about. I talked to a rep at RaceTech and got the following information. Anything you would change?

Plan for the NCX: Commuting; some light offroad riding on forest service roads; plan on long trip up to Prudhoe Bay (?)
Gold Valve Emulator - FEGV S4101
Fork Spring: Recommended spring rate is 0.80 KG/mm. Is this necessary? I don't know what the stock spring rate is but, at 145-150#, the stock spring is plenty stiff for me.
Fork Oil: 15W Bel-Ray or Spectro. I was a bit surprised that they didn't recommend their 10W fork oil.
Emulator washers: I've read that you can change the combination of the washers to suit your riding style and needs. Any recommendation from users out there?
Fork bushing and seals: Any need to replace them? After almost 3 years and 24K miles, I don't have any leaks and the forks have only seen very little offroad use. No nicks on the forks.

Any other best practice for the installations? I am really looking forward to the install and the results.

 

[670cc]

You will install the GVE system without ever separating the inner and outer fork tubes. So if the seals are fine there is no need to mess with them.

I stayed with the stock Honda progressive rate springs.

I don't know what you mean about washers, but there are different pop off springs that can be used. The emulator will come with two choices, and there is s lighter silver spring you can also get. I use this lighter silver spring since I like a softer ride. Also, I use 10 wt Belray oil. 10 Wt is the stock viscosity.

It all depends how soft or firm you want the ride.

 

[Naked_Duc]

Thanks, 670cc. I will do some reading on the fork oil weight. As for the washer stacks, I think I was watching a wrong gold valve video that was for dirt bikes. Never mind on that.

 

[glencoeman]

Would using 5wt fork oil instead of the stock 10w oil help the flow of oil in the forks. I know most people would not go that way but, BMW used to specify 5wt oil on most of their old air cooled twins and they handled quite good.

 

[mtiberio]

Depends on design. you could try thinner oil. you could drill out the damper holes slightly to reduce compression damping. When racetech cartridge emulators are installed, they have you drill the damping holes out a bunch to render them ineffective. Some hole diameter closer to stock might be the cheap bastard ticket. can anyone give us the number racetech wants you to drill to? Strictly as something to avoid in my scenario. Also, if you increase the oil level slightly, you will introduce a natural progression into the "air spring" that resides above the oil level in a fork.

I plan to pull my forks down soon, 1) so I can calculate accurately how much the triple clamps can be slid down the tube to lower the front end (So I know where to set my adjustable lowering links for the rear to keep the bike level), 2) to change the oil to 5wt, 3) perhaps drill out slightly the compression damping holes 4) to increase the oil level to get more progresson in the spring. I'll post results when I get around to it.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

I had a problem with my Triumph forks being too stiff on compression. I tried a 2.5 oil but even that made little difference. I believe that the only option with the NC forks is a major rework of the damping aspects of the forks as outlined above, or as mentioned elsewhere on this forum.

 

[670cc]

With the Gold Valve Emulator set up, oil weight is used to control the rebound damping. Settings on the emulators control the compression action.

 

[Ponyperformance8]

I did not replace the fork springs. Mine are still stock.

As for the springs on the emulators, two sets of different stiffness springs are provided with the kit, and RaceTech sent me another, lighter pair at no charge per my request.

I thought I took photos of the installation, but I'm still trying to locate them.

Hey 670, forgive me if you have already done this, but can you post a link to the exact product you purchased from Racetech ?

 

[670cc]

Hey 670, forgive me if you have already done this, but can you post a link to the exact product you purchased from Racetech ?

I can look it up but it will be a few days. I'm on a dirt bike/camping vacation this weekend. It was the part number recommended by Racetech but I bought it from a secondary vendor for less money.

 

[treybrad]

Fork Spring: Recommended spring rate is 0.80 KG/mm. Is this necessary? I don't know what the stock spring rate is but, at 145-150#, the stock spring is plenty stiff for me.

I bought straight rate RT .90 springs and can't tell much difference from stock. In fact, they're on the shelf now because last time I was tweaking my emulators I stuck the OEM springs back in to see if I could tell a difference. I'm a little heavier, around 160# before gear if it matters.

So, I'd probably skip the heavier springs for what you're wanting to do. They might be a good upgrade if you planned on more serious off roading.

My $.02 anyway.

trey

 

[Naked_Duc]

Thanks Trey. Being a lighter guy, I think the stock spring is fine. Even when I rode on FS roads, I doubt I bottomed out when I hit a big pothole straight on, now that I thought about it. It's probably just the damping rod having too much high speed damping. It just felt like I had bottomed out.

I just ordered the emulator off eBay for the same part number for $125 with free shipping.

 

[Ponyperformance8]

I can look it up but it will be a few days. I'm on a dirt bike/camping vacation this weekend. It was the part number recommended by Racetech but I bought it from a secondary vendor for less money.

Thanks, am I right in understanding this was the only mod you made?

 

[Naked_Duc]

I finally got around to install the emulators today. Taking the forks off and taking them apart was pretty straight forward, except I got hung up on taking out the damping rods... I've never taken apart a motorcycle fork before so I didn't know that there is a bolt holding it in. LOL A search for schematic reveal that little bolt.

Drilling out of the damping rods took a little bit of time. Then it was deburring and cleaning up. I also cut 1/2" off the metal spacer to compensate for the height the emulator takes up. Then it's unto reassembling in reverse order.

All is well, until I tried to put the fork cap on. I think I had to compress the spring almost 3" to get the cap to screw on. HOLY CRAP! After I got it back on, as I suspected, I have way too much preload which made the forks really stiff.

I am going to take the forks apart tomorrow and see what's wrong. Maybe when the emulator was put in, it sank down and seated on the damping rods crooked. Fingers crossed.

INSTALL UPDATE:
In deed the emulator was seated on the damping rods crooked. Luckily, nothing was damaged from my mistake. I took everything apart and reassembled. This time when I dropped in the emulator, I moved the fork tube up and down a few times, trying to let the oil movement seat the emulator correctly. Sure enough, everything fits! Halleluiah!