2013 NC700X totally dead

[lootzyan]

...They said I need to bring the battery to them.
They will put it on a charger over night.
If it is still dead the next day I get a new battery.
If not, I get the old one back...

It's a waste of your time. If your battery has only 5.5 V, it is dead, not discharged.
No super-duper dealer charging can change anything. Yes, they can show you that battery could be charged but the battery still will be as good as dead. This is a physical and electro-chemical property of lead cell. The damage to battery is irreversible.
You need to get a new battery - sad but true.
But before you install new battery you need to find out what caused battery drain. You need to perform current leakage test. And next, test charging system.
That's for start.

View attachment 32184

 

[Deleted member 5383]

the all batteries all the time forum! ; }

 

[showkey]

^^^^^^^^. I agree it is likely a waste of time........but...........the dealer also likely must jump through the warranty hoop. (the hoop maybe Hondas or his battery supplier or an independent aftermarket dealer, depending where or who is handling this )

He must charge a low battery and retest and recorded his readings and a sometimes printing the test data ( with a serial number) from the battery tester. Without that proper documentation the dealer eats the $125 battery.

I also would not be surprised if the customer is requested or required bring the bike to be sure there's not a problem with the bike, accessories ( yes there are none) so the new battery does not end with the same story 10 days from now.

If your thinking what a crock.........just make up some voltage readings and give the guy new battery. After the dealer eats a half dozen batteries for bogus documentation on warranty claims they tend to follow the procedures.

 

[lootzyan]

But who is going to cover $500 cost of battery tests?

 

[Chris]

It seems to always be an unpredictable problem on the NC. I had a similar issue. Came out to garage to go for a ride. Battery absolutely dead. Very low voltage - maybe only 6 or 7 volts, I no longer remember. I didn't have a tender or bike battery charger so as a last resort hooked it up to an old car battery charger on the lowest setting and kept an eye on it every 10 or 20 minutes. After an hour or two it seemed to have take enough charge to make it worthwhile trying to start the bike. Refitted the battery, bike started fine no problems and never a repetition. I never did find the cause. The battery lasted then for the next three and a bit years until I traded the bike in.

 

[showkey]

But who is going to cover $500 cost of battery tests?

I am guessing your being slightly sarcastic...........but the dealer could have a 30 to 60 minutes in the entire process. ( they do not get paid for watching the battery charge) and may not get paid for all this testing. Especially if there is "no problem found."

If this is a bike warranty issue the dealer could likely claim .5 hour total. Any way you look at it not a profit center for the dealer...........it's more about just a not loosing money and the dealer is not getting rich in this process. If this is the an aftermarket battery.........it's anyone guess how and the how much the dealer will get reimbursed.

The Honda dealer has battery testing tool Medtronic 404xl That is a mandatory tool. I don't thing the 404 is network connected but many Medtronic tools auto down load the battery test data to the manufacture for warranty cost control and problem tracking.

Chris.......there have been a hand full of reports of mystery low battery reports. With no confirmed cause and some of these reports involved highly modified bikes. One theory was the voltage regulator leaking current intermittently. An intermittent sticking relay would also be a prime suspect. No confirmed causes found to date. Some have been related back to the "sudden battery death".

Also there are many reports of dead battery after sitting with the cause directly identified to accessories connected directy to the battery like Cell phone charger, GPS, heated grips etc etc


Yes ......this battery topic is a like besting a dead horse, over and over.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

oh, it's actually quite refreshing after what seems like months, to see only ONE battery thread in the new posts listings ; }

 

[lootzyan]

I am guessing your being slightly sarcastic..........

I am far from being sarcastic. Just tried to give honest assessment.

This was not a battery failure. (Probably not because, of course, poor battery quality could be a factor).

First, battery has some energy left – so dismiss open internal connection.
Any experience dealer technician would say the same. They can measure state of charge and assess level of potential capacity. But they cannot "x-ray" battery.
I don't know if shorted cells are possible in AGM batteries. In standard "flooded" batteries it could happen after long time of battery abuse. (I didn't see this for over 45 years).
As you said, dealer may demand to bring bike to them for testing - 30 miles one way on average using specialized transportation – how much it would cost?
Testing takes a time. Time is money. ($100/h?)
This everything so dealer would say – “Sorry, not a battery fault.”
Waste of time (= money).

Just order reliable battery and concentrate to find out what caused battery drain.

 

[showkey]

If the OP wants to order a battery and take this on his own that certainly is an option..........not a good one for him. Then does the customer have the tools and skills to find or determine if there is drain ???? It did takes us 36 posts to get to the measuring the battery voltage with a VOLTMETER. This thread does have something in common with a prior battery problem where we had over 100 posts on merits of jump starting a motorcycle.

All I can say is your jumping to huge conclusions with real shortage of facts. Especially the internal connection battery still has some voltage theory as the internal connections between the cells is a likely cause for sudden battery failure. They show 12+ volts until the slightest load and then drop to 7 volts like a rock.


A few post back I mentioned hoops and jumping through them..........in the real world of getting a free warranty replacement of any part there are always a few hoops.
Then I would say ( guess) you never worked at a vehicle dealer or for manufacture ............because they have procedures and rules ( hoops) for just about every diagnosis, test and repair. Don't follow the rules or procedures..........you...... DO NOT GET PAID. If the your a dealership tech that last thing you want is to work for free.

It does not matter if you think the testing ( hoops) are waste of time or the tests have no merit ......the dealer and the manufacturer make the rules if you want to warranty a battery or any other part. Not sure but I am thinking the Honda bike does not have towing in the warranty..........so yes the customer might have to get the bike there ??????

But again we do not have all the facts in this situation so .............we are guessing and wasting time. The dealer may give the customer a brand new battery and send him on his way. Then we wait and see if the bike stays fixed.

 

[lootzyan]

.... real shortage of facts. Especially the internal connection battery still has some voltage theory as the internal connections between the cells is a likely cause for sudden battery failure...

No offense, but I don't understand anything from that sentence.

It must have something to do with me saying: - "First, battery has some energy left – so dismiss open internal connection".

OP previously stated that he could read 5.38 V of battery voltage -... meaning: ... internal flow of electrons therefore no broken internal connection between cells. If there is no connection between cells there would be no voltage reading. Cells are connected in series.
Big drop of voltage under relatively small load indicates deep level of sulfation.

That is all what we need to know. No need for more facts.
No warranty claim can be accepted from technical point of view. After 10 months of use there is no way to prove that deep discharge happened because of internal battery failure.
Battery tests would be a waste of time.

As of "sudden battery failure" - this sounds like unexplained, ET involved event. But there is nothing "sudden" or "unexplained" in it.
For short explanation let's ask YUASA:
"Sudden battery failure is simply that! One minute the battery functions properly, and the next it fails to provide electrical power to your vehicle. In the vast majority of situations where this occurs, an internal battery connection failure is to blame. These internal failures usually are the result of poor care and maintenance of the battery. To help ensure that this condition does not occur with your battery, follow the care and maintenance instructions included with the battery or refer to our maintenance section of this web site".
This does not apply to OP battery. There is no lost of internal connection.

 

[showkey]

Sorry.......I am done with the speculation game.

Please.......Carry on

 

[showkey]

Answer to the original post from the owner

Cut and pasted from the push starting thread :

Dave - you are right on again!!

Just got word from the dealer that the battery is fine and they cannot find a draw.
They charged up the battery from dead and it is holding a full charge.
Has done so for several days.
Even with the battery in the bike it stays full.
It was down and they felt it was so low the trickle charger could not help it get strong enough to power up.
They wondered if the machine was left on.
I always back it into it spot in the garage and turn the wheel and lock the steering.
I must have done something but I do not know what it could be.
The good news is the bike is running and has a clean bill of health.
The bad news is I lost several good weather riding days.
That will fix my wagon and help me to remember to do everything as I should.
(Right now Dave is shaking his head - Another one!!)
I am just happy to get the old girl back home again and ready for a run up in the mountains!

God bless!!

Michael

The above is....
What you see is what we know...........no answer to shop charge, guess they checked it out under warranty or for free since dealer does not have a repair or part to actually warranty.

 

[Hank]

Batteries today are so different than when I knew something about them.

I have an AR drone with a proprietary smart charger.
If the battery is at zero it won't charge.
You can buy these batteries cheaply because people think they are dead.
I put it on a battery tender jr. for one minute. That charged it enough to fool the smart charger into charging it.
Now it works fine. (Be careful, this would eventually heat the battery and cause a fire.)

Perhaps there is something similar at work here.

 

[ste7ios]

Batteries today are so different than when I knew something about them.

I have an AR drone with a proprietary smart charger.
If the battery is at zero it won't charge.
You can buy these batteries cheaply because people think they are dead.
I put it on a battery tender jr. for one minute. That charged it enough to fool the smart charger into charging it.
Now it works fine. (Be careful, this would eventually heat the battery and cause a fire.)

Perhaps there is something similar at work here.

Every battery chemistry has its limitations. In general no battery likes deep discharging. You've to respect that.

Lead acid SLI batteries for example doesn't like discharges bellow 70%-50%. Deep cycle batteries can go deeper.

LiFePO4 should never discharged bellow 20%...

Your drone must have a LiCoO2 battery. The lower cut-off voltage is 2.5V per cell i.e. 7.5V for your AR's 3S battery.

Bellow that voltage, battery's life shortens remarkably...

Some batteries can be saved, some not, with a very specific charging method for their chemistry. For lead acid (bellow 11.5 or 10.5 V) is usually a high voltage (about 20V to overcome the higher internal resistance) until current flows again. But don't expect from them to return back with their full capacity, especially VRLAs...


About today's motorcycle SLI lead acid batteries... it seems that they have sacrificed long life for more capacity & performance in the same small box size... That means a plate like a sponge (i.e. more surface) more vulnerable to sulfation & corrosion...