DCT In Review

[Fuzzy]

Just making some observations here: Folks seem to praise the reduction in motorcycle controls. We've pretty much done away with the fuel petcock and the manual choke. The need to insert and turn a key is going away. DCT takes away the clutch.

I have to wonder if the next step in controls reduction is a single brake control, as automobiles have. The rider will need only concern themselves with a throttle, a single brake lever, and steering. Riders of the single brake lever motorcycle could tout the safety advantage of having ones feet always available to support the motorcycle. Laws will probably need to change before manufacturers can simplify to a single brake lever.

I'm not stating any opinion on the values or my preference for DCT or manual, just observing the trend.

It's called 'scooter'..

What scooter have you been riding David. Every scooter I've ridden has two brake controls.

 

[b_rubenstein]

There are a lot of folks, like myself who are over 60, and either went back to riding after not doing it for a long time, or motorcycling is on their buck list. the truth is that riding and controlling a motorcycle is way more complicated than driving a car. With age it takes longer to become a competent rider and the work load of controlling the bike takes away from paying attention to what's going on around you. Not having to pay attention to shifting and clutch operation makes it easier to maintain situational awareness. For a lot of riders the DTC is a valuable safety feature.

(No, I didn't get a DTC, because I couldn't imagine riding without a clutch and shifter. Having been transferred for work from NYC to central FL, I don't have to spend half my time watching out for potholes.)

 

[Chabon]

Just took my DCT through the twisties for the first time. Only owned for one week. It was great ride, didn't have to anticipate shifts etc. Lots of miles on my other bikes, but this was effortless. I think I'm spoiled. Put it in sport mode and hit the downshift button entering curves, sweet.

 

[fiah]

There is one other thing with the DCT most forget about when talking and discussing, especially in low speeds, or tricky cornering.

IT WILL NOT STALL!

Let me repeat that.

It will not stall.

joke's on you, I stalled mine twice! Maybe even thrice, I don't know. Point is, sometimes when the engine is cold and the oil is particularly thick, the ECU on mine gets confused and doesn't slip the clutch enough on take off. The workaround is easy: give it a tiny bit more throttle when you get going from a stop until the engine has some heat in it

 

[Gbjbany]

The weird thing is when you say DCT - the people dont think - oh like the porsche 911 carrera , Mercedes AMG- GT-s , Audi TT, VW golf, Acura NSX etc ? - Yep exactly like that - no its not a CVT (as most scooters are too - suzi burgman 650 comes to mind as an exception) - if you ask them if they drive a stick shift or auto - almost all are auto - so why the look down your nose.
Now i have heard people say - oh ! but the shifting is part of the fun, especially in the twisties - and i can see that , its like driving a stick auto - more control.

My 02 cents is the ECU (i have 2015) needs a bit more refinement - it sometimes changes up when you dont want it to, especially down hill on corners - answer is switch to manual

BTW roadrunner mag did a review for the Africa Twin with DCT - he didnt want to give it back for offroad 2016 Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin: Party Crasher | RoadRUNNER Motorcycle Touring & Travel Magazine

 

[Disorganic]

Joined the forum just to contribute to this thread. (Whaddup)

I got licenced up in the start of this year in a giant parking lot on a couple of Honda Rebels that were older than I was, and as I watch this mix of young folk and older guys who just cant wait to get their goldwings and harleys, Im watching us all bobble around corners and stalling out... It nagged at me. I wanted to love motorcycles. I really did; but sweating in safety gear in 100' weather was a wrecker. I got my cert and then I was looking at two options for bikes, with that "well, for the next couple of years" mentality. I'd ruled out buying used - I don't have the bike-mechanical smarts to know a lemon from a winner, but I do have enough background in maintenance that if someone said "yeah, the carbs need a little tweak, but its fine" that Im in for some ****ery. So Im weighing up cheap and cheerful, Suzuki GW250s and Rebels. Nearly talked myself into a KTM.


...but I hate doing that kinda thing, compromising with cash. I figure if you're gonna spend the money, Spend it once, buy it right. So after a lot of drooling and wayyyy too much reading, I bought an NM4. Damn near had to drive all over the state to find one, and the dealer had no idea what he had.

long story short : I love the DCT; I think I love it even more than the stoplight attention from other bikers. I like not having one more damned thing to think about at 5am when Im tryna wake up (the whole left hand side of my body can take a nap!) . I *love* the fuel economy - I cheerfully flaunt my $5 gas slips at my girl who drives an expedition, and when traffic starts to get derpy, a quick click into sportmode drags me around the snowbirds and back out to peace of mind.

straight up, without DCT I don't think I would have stuck out the summer. I think I'd have written the whole thing off as a bad decision and bought a camry or something.

 

[LM15]

I favor the DCT for a number of reasons, all of which have been stated here. Also, I believe I read somewhere that the next Goldwing would offer DCT.

 

[DirtFlier]

[...and commonly but not always, an engine that is integral to the swingarm....]

Nothing like maximizing the unsprung weight!

 

[Antarius]

I am not a DCT fan because I prefer a manual -- but not for performance issues -- just for personal preference, but the technology is so damn cool that anyone who says its an "automatic" or a "scooter" really has no understanding as to what it is. It is legitimately changing gears while slipping the clutch, automatically, and never losing drive while it switches gears.

It literally wasn't until this year that each factory bike on the MotoGP grid even had the technology of a true dual clutch system.

The Honda NC700x is not a scooter and the DCT is not some lame little "automatic" that lugs around. It's unbelievably advanced technology in a basic nuts-and-bolts motorcycle, that's what makes it cool. If more non-NC owners knew this, they'd be as amazed as we are.

 

[davidc83]

I was going by the statement 'single brake control, as automobiles have. The rider will need only concern themselves with a throttle, a single brake lever, and steering'-I know scooters are step thru.

 

[dduelin]

joke's on you, I stalled mine twice! Maybe even thrice, I don't know. Point is, sometimes when the engine is cold and the oil is particularly thick, the ECU on mine gets confused and doesn't slip the clutch enough on take off. The workaround is easy: give it a tiny bit more throttle when you get going from a stop until the engine has some heat in it

Mine has never done this and I don't recall it ever being brought up on an NC forum. There is a procedure to recalibrate the DCT clutch control perhaps this might alleviate this problem on your particular bike. What oil at what ambient temperature did this occur?

The OP might not have meant this when speaking about "never stalling" but I understand his post that as no matter what low speed/high load/low rpm situation you get into the clutch will disengage accordingly so that the engine does not stall due to load. In that regard I agree completely with Deckyon.

 

[Deckyon]

Coming up on 2 years and nearly 19,000 miles through all weather (hot, cold, wet, dry) and I have yet to have the motorcycle stall.

 

[670cc]

There is one other thing with the DCT most forget about when talking and discussing, especially in low speeds, or tricky cornering.

IT WILL NOT STALL!

Let me repeat that.

It will not stall.

So even when it runs out of gas, IT WILL NOT STALL! That's amazing technology.

 

[Deckyon]

So even when it runs out of gas, IT WILL NOT STALL! That's amazing technology.

. . .

Always one.

 

[fiah]

Mine has never done this and I don't recall it ever being brought up on an NC forum. There is a procedure to recalibrate the DCT clutch control perhaps this might alleviate this problem on your particular bike. What oil at what ambient temperature did this occur?

The OP might not have meant this when speaking about "never stalling" but I understand his post that as no matter what low speed/high load/low rpm situation you get into the clutch will disengage accordingly so that the engine does not stall due to load. In that regard I agree completely with Deckyon.

it doesn't matter, the clutch calibrates itself automatically all the time and with my bike it's obvious that after a cold start it's slightly off for the first one or two engagements. That by itself wouldn't be enough to stall the bike, but when the engine management also decides to stop with the high idle a bit early, the two factors combined caused my specific bike to stall 2 or 3 times in the more than 4 years/22k+ miles I've owned it. It's also obvious from how the engine/gearbox react when it might happen because of how it reacts to the throttle. Like I said, slightly more throttle prevents it from happening (so to rev up the engine more before it decides to engage the clutch) or alternatively I could just let the bike idle for a few seconds longer. Maybe the DCT clutch calibration puts it in a default engagement range that solves the problem but I probably wouldn't even know if it did because it only happened all of 3 times in 4 years of ownership and only when it was nearly freezing anyway.

The fact that it (otherwise) won't stall makes it a great bike for low speed manoeuvres, and it's really helpful if you ever get in over your head off road as well

Coming up on 2 years and nearly 19,000 miles through all weather (hot, cold, wet, dry) and I have yet to have the motorcycle stall.

FWIW the newer bikes slip the clutch so much in 1st and even 2nd that this is a complete non-issue

 

[ViperDriver]

After many years (50+) of clutch-throttle-shifter monkey-motion, I bought the DCT. After two years of riding with it, I hope I never have to go back. I used manual mode at first, thinking I could do things better, but after hitting the rev limiter while passing a couple of times I decided auto was safer. Never in the wrong gear leaving a stop light, never stall, never lug, never miss a shift, never over-rev/hit the rev limiter--and--it frees up a lot of brain-cycles to be used for other things. +++ from me!

 

[DCTFAN]

Like DCTFAN I'm new (licensed last September) and now have about 10,400 miles on the bike. I'm also not a youngster - I was alive when Kennedy was assassinated.

I was much more concerned about learning to ride well than looking cool. I'd say the DCT has allowed me to be a much better rider much faster. My brother, who has ridden almost 40 years and ridden in many countries, tells me I'm riding like someone with several years of experience. In the last year I've been able to focus on hitting the apex, entry speed, traffic, etc. rather than clutch and left foot.

Over the last couple months I've found myself riding much more in manual mode to self select gears unless I'm just cruising down the road.

I do hope there are more choices in the coming year or two to allow an upgrade to a somewhat bigger bike and keep DCT (an r1200rt with DCT would be great).


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You've opened the secret of the DCT. IMO, the rider giving up controls to the clutch
and shift points, is rewarded with expert shift points, simulating a professional rider.
All you need to do is select the proper mode and control the throttle thereby enabling
you to concentrate on traction, body positioning and your surroundings.
A great step up in riding proficiency, thanks to the DCT.

Also, having experienced the 3rd gen DCT on the CRF1000L, the VFR1200X and what I know about the NC750X
I realize that it will not likely have another gen developed, as it has taken Honda almost 8 years to perfect it.
For the competition to get in on the DCT (for motorcycles) this late in the game, would be suicidal.

The MC market is changing and all the manufacturers will have to position themselves accordingly.
I am watching Honda try to merge the "scooter" into an adventure bike with their X-ADV offering.
Will it catch on? If it does, they hit the jackpot, since scooter sales for Honda is much bigger than MC
What is the competition doing? Asleep at the wheel.
I think I will keep rooting for team Honda for the foreseeable future.

 

[Woody]

Having arrived late in life to the world of motor bikes I decided quickly that with all the new skills I had to learn in becoming competent on a bike, guessing which gear I needed to be in was one complication I could do without. The consequence was that I went for a DCT without having actually tried one. It was a decision I do not regret. 2 months and 1,500km later, I am already starting to experiment with the gear levers, especially on hills, but as much as I like the extra control, especially with engine braking, I am so far not convinced that the day will come when I yearn for a "real bike". Even in sport mode, you can do a certain amount of forced shifting using the throttle, so all this talk about "real bikes" giving you better control seems to be exaggerated to me. Just as many people have pointed out, I don't miss a clutch in my car (Audi S3 with DSG), so why would I miss it on a bike? Anyhoo, you can't miss what you never had.

 

[Old Can Ride]

I know very little about the DCT, but I am now in the learning curve. Lesson number ONE was proper use of the parking brake, as the DCT will roll down hill. I did also learned to put on engine guards before you start learning the new DCT process, as drops do scratch...

 

[Deleted member 5383]

On a similar note, mention Rekluse clutches and prepare for internet bullies to insist you turn your man card in ; } ...but nothing's wrong with not wanting to deal with stalls and obstacle shifting. I knew a guy with very limited use of his left arm and hand and he was actually a killer trail and woods rider. It's great to have such options available for any number of reasons.