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These are also points to consider and very valid ones.
NC700X DCT for First Time Rider?
- Thread starter Jarrett
- Start date
These are also points to consider and very valid ones.
Sonny
New Member
In a blurb on automatic motorcycles in Motorcycling the Right Way, Ken Condon remarks that fewer and fewer manual-shift autos are sold these days, and new generations are growing up who have never shifted gears in a car, and find the hand clutch on a MC intimidating... and that this is hurting motorcycle sales. That's his Reason One for DCT and CVT. Reason Two is accommodating those with an injury or disability on the left side.
To me, Reason Three is, new technology is often better than old, it's the wave of the future, and on a bike the freeing up of cognitive space from operating the transmission for situational awareness and riding dynamics adds a safety factor. It's the same way in a car, and you can still use acceleration sense, engine braking and so forth.
The argument for manual shifting is, manual shifting is fairly easy to learn, it is a lot of fun, it gives you immediate control of the RPM as desired for the situation, and it has always been an integral part of motorcycling. But as an argument against riding an automatic, it doesn't have any teeth IMHO. Both designs can be ridden safely and well.
Passing power and quickness is engine related, more than transmission. If you want more beans, other bikes have it, with and without DCT. Honda makes more beany ones with DCT. The NCs appear to be designed to be steady and easy to ride, rather than to thrill you and pull your arms out of socket.
That said, I hate to see new riders skip learning to shift due to not wanting to learn. It is quickly learned, and it is worth learning... then you are making an informed choice if an AT is your style. The riskiest thing about riding is trying to do it without a real drive to learn everything you can about it, and to keep learning.
To me, Reason Three is, new technology is often better than old, it's the wave of the future, and on a bike the freeing up of cognitive space from operating the transmission for situational awareness and riding dynamics adds a safety factor. It's the same way in a car, and you can still use acceleration sense, engine braking and so forth.
The argument for manual shifting is, manual shifting is fairly easy to learn, it is a lot of fun, it gives you immediate control of the RPM as desired for the situation, and it has always been an integral part of motorcycling. But as an argument against riding an automatic, it doesn't have any teeth IMHO. Both designs can be ridden safely and well.
Passing power and quickness is engine related, more than transmission. If you want more beans, other bikes have it, with and without DCT. Honda makes more beany ones with DCT. The NCs appear to be designed to be steady and easy to ride, rather than to thrill you and pull your arms out of socket.
That said, I hate to see new riders skip learning to shift due to not wanting to learn. It is quickly learned, and it is worth learning... then you are making an informed choice if an AT is your style. The riskiest thing about riding is trying to do it without a real drive to learn everything you can about it, and to keep learning.
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Just to be clear on the OP’s comment in the first post, the Honda DCT is not “somewhat automatic”, it is fully automatic. Other than pushing a button to engage Drive or Sport more, it requires no intervention on the part of the operator. If you do desire more control, you can override the shifts with buttons, within boundaries that the computer allows, or you can shift it all manually with buttons, again within certain allowed boundaries. However, you can never have control over the clutch.
Sonny described the “big picture” so well in the previous post. The only thing that I would add is that being intimidated by a clutch is a short term thing. An often cited reason for going automatic is that the rider can focus on things other than shifting gears. While that may be true, it should be noted that experienced manual transmission riders shift through the gear with no conscious thought whatsoever. Shifting just happens, and it doesn’t take away from important aspects of the ride, but rather adds to it.
So, for the short term, the automatic is a good choice. But keep yourself open to furthering your experience with a manual, as you might or might not find satisfaction in having more control over the machine. You may someday want a second motorcycle for a different purpose, such as a dirt bike, and having experience with a manual transmission would be useful.
Sonny described the “big picture” so well in the previous post. The only thing that I would add is that being intimidated by a clutch is a short term thing. An often cited reason for going automatic is that the rider can focus on things other than shifting gears. While that may be true, it should be noted that experienced manual transmission riders shift through the gear with no conscious thought whatsoever. Shifting just happens, and it doesn’t take away from important aspects of the ride, but rather adds to it.
So, for the short term, the automatic is a good choice. But keep yourself open to furthering your experience with a manual, as you might or might not find satisfaction in having more control over the machine. You may someday want a second motorcycle for a different purpose, such as a dirt bike, and having experience with a manual transmission would be useful.
GgarryP
Elite Member
A couple of safety advantages for the DCT, especially for beginners. You can't stall the bike if you're in the wrong gear. You're always in the right gear. Sometimes it takes a second to downshift and you might want to anticipate for faster response, it's easy with a flick of your left thumb.
And there's no stalling from a stop if you don't coordinate throttle and clutch correctly. Just twist the throttle and go. That could be critical to get you out of a jam.
As an experienced rider, I appreciate that kind of assurance. It's not just for beginners.
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And there's no stalling from a stop if you don't coordinate throttle and clutch correctly. Just twist the throttle and go. That could be critical to get you out of a jam.
As an experienced rider, I appreciate that kind of assurance. It's not just for beginners.
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Jos
New Member
Yeah, that's useful, especially if you ever dropped a bike after stalling at low speed 
Well, that’s 99.9% correct, but it’s not entirely impossible to stall. I watched a rider start up his DCT Africa Twin on a cold morning. He attempted to ride off, the engine stalled, and the bike fell over.
Rapturee
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Hey Jarrett, welcome to the Ride! Thank you for sharing your thoughts/concerns with all of us. I know i speak for several of the others when i say "I believe you have come to the right place"! There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here. Most of the folks are very helpful here and are concerned that you find one that "You're Comfortable with, one that fits you"!
You Sir are a big man and as you stated, you are very capable of handling yourself with a lot of power. I am 6'6" 225lb and the NC700x(mine is a manual) is an incredibly comfortable motorcycle for me to ride. I was not against getting the DCT, and the more i talk with folks who have one I very well may get one in the future. However, this one just popped up for an incredible deal i couldn't pass up. It's a 2012, Black/Silver, original owner 1702 miles, $2,500.00 cash! I'd been wanting one for several years after reading a really nice write up by Motorcycle Hall-of-Famer Craig Vetter. So, after reading his comments i set out to find one to test ride. I just purchased it a couple of months ago and just now have been able to ride it a couple of hundred miles. I already have an idea to ride it to Alaska and am trying to make plans to make the trip in 2019!
Although it is not a 14,000rpm rocket ship like some of the 1L sportsbikes, it is not designed for that. It is a great, can-do, good all around machine that will serve you well with plenty of power, a smooth power band, give you a huge grin in the twisties and great MPG!! I encourage you to get one of the NC700's, either manual or automatic, and go enjoy it! :{)
You Sir are a big man and as you stated, you are very capable of handling yourself with a lot of power. I am 6'6" 225lb and the NC700x(mine is a manual) is an incredibly comfortable motorcycle for me to ride. I was not against getting the DCT, and the more i talk with folks who have one I very well may get one in the future. However, this one just popped up for an incredible deal i couldn't pass up. It's a 2012, Black/Silver, original owner 1702 miles, $2,500.00 cash! I'd been wanting one for several years after reading a really nice write up by Motorcycle Hall-of-Famer Craig Vetter. So, after reading his comments i set out to find one to test ride. I just purchased it a couple of months ago and just now have been able to ride it a couple of hundred miles. I already have an idea to ride it to Alaska and am trying to make plans to make the trip in 2019!
Although it is not a 14,000rpm rocket ship like some of the 1L sportsbikes, it is not designed for that. It is a great, can-do, good all around machine that will serve you well with plenty of power, a smooth power band, give you a huge grin in the twisties and great MPG!! I encourage you to get one of the NC700's, either manual or automatic, and go enjoy it! :{)
dduelin
Site Supporter
An often repeated claim is that experienced riders on manual transmission bikes "shift without thinking about it". If the riding is just putting around at slow speeds on unchallenging roads that might be true but if the riding involves negotiating curves and technical terrain with spirit then it is far from correct. To shift without thinking about it means that the rider has successfully moved very complex and complicated sets of muscle movements from the upper brain, the brain making conscious decisions, to the lower brain where these complex and complicated decisions are made on a subconscious level, where stored thought and decision making programs are done without apparent thought but thought is indeed devoted to it. Up the pace and the thought moves out of the subconscious to the conscious level where bandwidth must be devoted to it. Riding at speed well involves our brains making hundreds of split second decisions on both levels..............but there is just so much computing power available whether or not the rider is aware of it. Choices of correct gear and rpm for corner entry and exit take significant amounts of thought at a time when bandwidth is critical and particularly with newer riders operating more on the upper brain. Riding a DCT bike allows the rider to give more attention to the road surface and judged traction, braking, line selection, and rapid changes in these critical factors to safely negotiating the curves. I have both types and think I speak from much experience. I love riding my DCT in the mountains.
There is a huge body that has studied this and published reams of peer accepted science with practical use in many sports. A good read for riders on the neurophyschology of riding well is Bernt Spiegel's book The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle.
To the original questions - the NC700 isn't a powerhouse but it has adequate power to safely transit interstate speed roads. I suspect most of us like the smaller roads anyway and avoid interstates unless we have no choice. There have been many long distance rides on the NC700X, some involving multiple days of 500 to more than 1000 miles per day. I've ridden several 1000+ mile days and many many over 500 on my NCs. I've owned both a manual and DCT version in 50,000 miles on NCs ( out of about 300,000 riding miles total ). I like the DCT version more and no way is it more dangerous than a manual. I'd argue for the opposite. One can always learn to ride a manual bike later but IMHO it's safer for a novice to start out on an autoshift transmission.
There is a huge body that has studied this and published reams of peer accepted science with practical use in many sports. A good read for riders on the neurophyschology of riding well is Bernt Spiegel's book The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle.
To the original questions - the NC700 isn't a powerhouse but it has adequate power to safely transit interstate speed roads. I suspect most of us like the smaller roads anyway and avoid interstates unless we have no choice. There have been many long distance rides on the NC700X, some involving multiple days of 500 to more than 1000 miles per day. I've ridden several 1000+ mile days and many many over 500 on my NCs. I've owned both a manual and DCT version in 50,000 miles on NCs ( out of about 300,000 riding miles total ). I like the DCT version more and no way is it more dangerous than a manual. I'd argue for the opposite. One can always learn to ride a manual bike later but IMHO it's safer for a novice to start out on an autoshift transmission.
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Jarrett
Member
Thanks for all this good input. And thanks for the info on cycle-ergo.com. These are my numbers:
VFR1200x - lean 1, knee 83, hip 85
Africa Twin - lean 0, knee 83, hip 89
NC700x - lean 4, knee 78, hip 85
What do they mean to me? I see the poster above is 6'6" and the NC700x is ok for his height. The dealerships don't open back up until Tuesday, so I can't actually sit on one until then.
I get the deal about manual shifting. I learned to drive on a stick and drove with one for many years. My girlfriend's car is manual (she has to search long times to find them) and I drive hers periodically. I get the idea that "everyone should learn on a stick," but at the same time I'm a little more concerned about safety on a bike versus driving a car with air bags and seatbelts and crumple zones while operating a stick. For me, DCT seems like once less thing to take my mind off of being careful on the road. Maybe after a few thousand miles with it, I'll get the itch for the "real deal" and get a traditional bike. Or maybe the bike industry will change before then, I don't know.
So today, I called some friends that know me and asked them about 700, 1000, 1200 engine options and they all thought I would waste my time going with a 700 and that I should just go ahead and jump to the 1200 right off the bat to save time and money. Any thoughts on that?
VFR1200x - lean 1, knee 83, hip 85
Africa Twin - lean 0, knee 83, hip 89
NC700x - lean 4, knee 78, hip 85
What do they mean to me? I see the poster above is 6'6" and the NC700x is ok for his height. The dealerships don't open back up until Tuesday, so I can't actually sit on one until then.
I get the deal about manual shifting. I learned to drive on a stick and drove with one for many years. My girlfriend's car is manual (she has to search long times to find them) and I drive hers periodically. I get the idea that "everyone should learn on a stick," but at the same time I'm a little more concerned about safety on a bike versus driving a car with air bags and seatbelts and crumple zones while operating a stick. For me, DCT seems like once less thing to take my mind off of being careful on the road. Maybe after a few thousand miles with it, I'll get the itch for the "real deal" and get a traditional bike. Or maybe the bike industry will change before then, I don't know.
So today, I called some friends that know me and asked them about 700, 1000, 1200 engine options and they all thought I would waste my time going with a 700 and that I should just go ahead and jump to the 1200 right off the bat to save time and money. Any thoughts on that?
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Madison Sully
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Gah, why would you need 1200 ccs?
But then, if they are friends, I guess their opinions count more than mine....
But then, if they are friends, I guess their opinions count more than mine....
GgarryP
Elite Member
The NC has all the power you need for public roads without all the fuss. A beginner with a 1200cc rocket is an invitation to disaster.
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Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You mentioned arm ripping acceleration from modified jet skis. The NC700X will provide you with absolutely none of that. But, for safety’s sake, you want to save that for the water and not take it to the street, anyway.
Many dealers, moto journalists and some fellow riders will always insist that you “need” more power. Many of those giving that advice have not even ridden an NC700. I suggest you get yourself a test ride and make your own judgement as to what power you want.
Recommending a 1200cc for a beginner? I don’t think so.
On the flip side of that, there are experienced riders who have downsized to smaller bikes because they’ve realized that nimble handing is more important than excess power and weight that is rarely utilized.
Many dealers, moto journalists and some fellow riders will always insist that you “need” more power. Many of those giving that advice have not even ridden an NC700. I suggest you get yourself a test ride and make your own judgement as to what power you want.
Recommending a 1200cc for a beginner? I don’t think so.
On the flip side of that, there are experienced riders who have downsized to smaller bikes because they’ve realized that nimble handing is more important than excess power and weight that is rarely utilized.
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jjtj2
New Member
If you are looking at a Honda adventure type bike in 1200cc then the only one that I am aware of is the VFR1200X. It does come with manual or DCT. From what I have gathered from the people who own them or have test driven them (I have not test driven it) is that they are extremely heavy. Possibly too heavy for an adventure type environment. They also get approximately 35 mpg. I can take my wife's Accord and get that.
The Africa Twin (1000cc) is a great bike but also heavier than the NC. The economy is in the low to mid 50's I believe. It also comes in manual or DCT. Other than some technical off road stuff, the NC can do everything the Africa Twin can do.
I too was concerned about out growing my bike too soon. That is why I opted away from a 250cc bike like they had me ride during my safety training. Don't get me wrong, I loved that bike and thoroughly enjoyed the two days I spent putting around on it. There are times that I am out practicing doing u-turns with the NC that I wish I had the 250 because it was lighter and therefore could have made learning easier and maybe quicker.
The Africa Twin (1000cc) is a great bike but also heavier than the NC. The economy is in the low to mid 50's I believe. It also comes in manual or DCT. Other than some technical off road stuff, the NC can do everything the Africa Twin can do.
I too was concerned about out growing my bike too soon. That is why I opted away from a 250cc bike like they had me ride during my safety training. Don't get me wrong, I loved that bike and thoroughly enjoyed the two days I spent putting around on it. There are times that I am out practicing doing u-turns with the NC that I wish I had the 250 because it was lighter and therefore could have made learning easier and maybe quicker.
+++^
I Would never suggest that you not get a more powerful bike at some point if that’s what you decide. Get what makes ya happy. But to start out on one like a 1200 cc might not be a wise decision. The learning curve in motorcycling is best accomplished as one progresses up the power curve. There is probably good reasoning behind why riding classes don’t start people out on heavier, more powerful machines...
I’m 66 now. Started on a 150 and worked my way up to 1800cc’s with a LOT of stuff in between on the way up. Generally speaking my skill levels vs. my engine displacements were kept pretty much in sync by virtue of my budget
but in retrospect that also gave me time to learn and avoid the mistakes that might have shortened my riding career if not worse.People usually ask about the NC in terms of how fast it is equating that to power. The NC has plenty of power - more than any average rider will ever need. And it’s plenty FAST as well. I’ve cruised for long stretches at 90mph when conditions were right. What the NC isn’t is QUICK. It’s quick enough to leave the traffic behind you from the traffic light so you don’t get run over but it might take a downshift to give you acceleration quick enough to make a pass or hit merging speeds on a highway. It will do all of those things just fine but just not QUICKLY. That’s how to look at it. It teaches patience and planning. Which is good for beginning riders for sure but also for riders like me who aren’t out to prove anything and just want to enjoy the road in a more leisurely manner. I have yet to regret my current choice of motorcycles. It does everything I want or need it to. And it’s been fun to learn how to ride it well within it’s limitations.
Good luck with the shopping - that’s half the fun
.Jarrett
Member
Sitting here at this point, I'm wondering between the Africa Twin and the NC700x. Reviews on the VFR1200X are not that great, but the Africa Twin seems to be universally adored and most reviews make the NS700x a "smart" choice for a commuter.
Red Rider, thanks for the concise info. Quick is what I'm hoping my first bike will be. Like sub 6 seconds, 0-60 would be just fine. And the ability to easily jump up to highways speeds quickly.
Looking at bike weights, it seems the NC and AT are closer than I realized:
Africa Twin - 998cc - 534 lbs.
NS700X - 670cc - 500 lbs.
I'm wondering if that displacement difference makes up for the weight difference in terms of feel.
Red Rider, thanks for the concise info. Quick is what I'm hoping my first bike will be. Like sub 6 seconds, 0-60 would be just fine. And the ability to easily jump up to highways speeds quickly.
Looking at bike weights, it seems the NC and AT are closer than I realized:
Africa Twin - 998cc - 534 lbs.
NS700X - 670cc - 500 lbs.
I'm wondering if that displacement difference makes up for the weight difference in terms of feel.
GgarryP
Elite Member
The NC and the Africa Twin are very different bikes. The NC is plenty quick enough, just not scorchingly fast. Choose the one that fits your riding style better. But don't forget to add about $5000 price difference for the Africa Twin.
ST13Fred
Active Member
The AT is very tall as was my CRF250L. As I get older swinging a leg on and off any bike is getting more and more difficult. I think this hits us all eventually.
The NC DCT does everything quite well and nothing spectacularly. The 1st gen are ugly however the 2nd gen much better looking and throatier sounding.
The NC DCT does everything quite well and nothing spectacularly. The 1st gen are ugly however the 2nd gen much better looking and throatier sounding.
Jarrett
Member
My friend says I'll get bored quickly with a 50hp/500 lbs bike like the NC700X. I don't know if bored on motorcycles is a good thing or not.
Not knowing anything, when I look at the NC700X and the Africa Twin, they look like the same bike to me, but one with a bigger engine. Is that not the case? Would anyone mind sharing details on the differences?
Anyone who is bored with his or her motorcycle needs to get it out of the garage more
. As noted above, two very different bikes - in nearly every way you can think of. Need to go into a dealer where you can look at the two side by side and talk to a KNOWLEDGEABLE employee (trust me, not all of them are) and walk through the features and benefits of each. Especially as it relates to how you intend to use a motorcycle. You’ll also get a wealth of info here on this forum but up close and personal is going to save you time as well as be more fun! Check out youtube videos on the bikes as they are occasionally tested, reviewed, and compared with similar competitor bikes. Loads of those out there - on all makes and models.
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Jos
New Member
IMHO beginning on an AT is a bit of a challenge (high seat, heavy). It can be done of course, and even justified if you are really tall. The NC is much easier to live with, and much more affordable, which is not a bad idea for a first bike.
