NGK spark plug

[JimbosToys]

Fyi - if 9802 is correct, ebay has them for under $5 each.

 

[Beemerphile]

A Champion 9802 is a model RC8WYPB4. That is one heat range colder than the stock plug. To add confusion, NGK heat range numbers get larger as you go colder. Champion is the opposite down to heat range 7 where their numbering system becomes irrational.

 

[showkey]

A

Honda says 32,000 miles. I think Honda is being too conservative in their recommended plug change interval.

^^^^^^^^agree..........especially when the similar use and technology on the automotive side certified during EPA emissions testing for a minimum 105,000 miles. Not to mention that 105,000 spec has a huge "safety" margin built in. The critical part of emissions testing is no fires are tolerated and the automotive system monitors for misfires. Misfires cause the vehicle to fail emissions, auto emissions warranty is 105,000 miles with a time limit that varies by region buy often is 5 to 8 years.

These plug discussions parallel oil change and valve adjustment intervals.

One other thing that has changed from years gone by is plugs failed from lead fouling, obviously that a thing of the past.

 

[Beemerphile]

A

^^^^^^^^agree..........especially when the similar use and technology on the automotive side certified during EPA emissions testing for a minimum 105,000 miles. Not to mention that 105,000 spec has a huge "safety" margin built in. The critical part of emissions testing is no fires are tolerated and the automotive system monitors for misfires. Misfires cause the vehicle to fail emissions, auto emissions warranty is 105,000 miles with a time limit that varies by region buy often is 5 to 8 years.

These plug discussions parallel oil change and valve adjustment intervals.

One other thing that has changed from years gone by is plugs failed from lead fouling, obviously that a thing of the past.

Bear in mind that, as the NGK link that 670cc posted says, the 100K plus life is for OEM plugs. They state the life of their own aftermarket plugs as much less. The OEM plugs often have a 0.6-0.7mm tip where the replacement plugs are in the 0.4mm range. There are lots of variables that could make the life of plugs different and there is no one number for plug life. You can be assured though that if the number was 250,000 miles that people would be running them 400,000 miles.

 

[showkey]

A Champion 9802 is a model RC8WYPB4. That is one heat range colder than the stock plug. To add confusion, NGK heat range numbers get larger as you go colder. Champion is the opposite down to heat range 7 where their numbering system becomes irrational.

View attachment 27026

When Honda Goldwing and later auto production came to the US........Champion tried to become an OEM supplier. It never worked out for two main reasons. Champion heat range over lap ( shown in the chart above) and plating issues. The Honda specifications were very tight or narrow, Champion by choice would not comply. Champion complained about the tight specs but it never changed. NGK or ND were the only OEM plugs the rest is history. If you think this a conspiracy against champion hundreds of other components like batteries, alternators, starters, gauges, filters, CAN systems, AC parts, engine parts and castings, suspension, carbs and FI parts are all sourced from local suppliers.

 

[Agent]

You can be assured though that if the number was 250,000 miles that people would be running them 400,000 miles.

Fun Fact of the Day: I didn't believe that I needed to change the plugs in my car when the guy at the dealership brought it up at ~100,000 miles. I was getting great mileage and everything was running perfect. Then, around 200,000 miles, the check engine light came on and threw a code for a faulty catalytic converter. I had them clear the code and kept driving only to have it come on about 10,000 miles later. Cleared it again and drove another 5,000 until it came on yet again. Not wanting to buy a new converter, I did a little research and was told that worn plugs could cause catalytic converter issues. Something about fuel not burning completely and getting down the exhaust pipe and into the cat. At 215,000 miles, the spark plugs were toast. The ground electrode looked like someone had drilled a hole half way through it (I guess from where the arc hit it). I put in new plugs and now have 25,000 miles on them with no more check engine lights. Moral of the story...just do it when the little book tells you to.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

Interesting about the connection with the cat. I hadn't thought of that one.

 

[showkey]

A misfire will destroy an automotive CAT in the matter of minutes. It melts down never to come back to life. CAT degrading over time is a whole different issue. In the automotive system the CAT performance is being monitored and checked at all times. If you read the automtive owner manual a flashing CEL means CAT damage is likely occurring. Modern cars can detect misfire and stop the fuel injector on the offending cylinder to save the CAT.

In a three way automotive CAT Codes after happen at 120,000 to 150,000. They are used up and the designed life is about that 105,000 miles plus the buffer. After 150,000 your on borrowed time. It is the reason oil formulas have changes in recent years. Even small amounts of oil consumption fouls the CAT over time. They removed some of the stuff that fouls the CAT.
Obviously there will be CAT that fail at 90k and ones that go 400k.

Keeping the FI system happy is the key to long CAT life things like air filters, MAF, O2, injectors, fuel quality, no air leaks in the intake or exhaust.

 

[MZ5]

RC8YC4 is the copper Champion plug I have in the bike. It is correct and proper in physical and electrical spec, and shows perfect color in the service I utilize my bike for.

 

[JimbosToys]

Too late - bought them. MZ5's comment makes me feel better.
Tell you why I did it - when I changed my stock exhaust over to a Danmoto Carbon I can now hear a misfire every so often at idle (have not noticed it at speed). Cannot remember if also after warmed up to operating temp. But, I decided to go ahead and buy some plugs and may change them prophylactically. Now I see these are supposed to outlive me, so I might have another issue. Any ideas, guys?
FYI - baffle is installed. Sounds very mellow, but no longer like a sewing machine...

 

[L.B.S.]

Too late - bought them. MZ5's comment makes me feel better.
Tell you why I did it - when I changed my stock exhaust over to a Danmoto Carbon I can now hear a misfire every so often at idle (have not noticed it at speed). Cannot remember if also after warmed up to operating temp. But, I decided to go ahead and buy some plugs and may change them prophylactically. Now I see these are supposed to outlive me, so I might have another issue. Any ideas, guys?
FYI - baffle is installed. Sounds very mellow, but no longer like a sewing machine...

I think those pops and snorts are actually always there, you just never hear them with the OEM muffler installed. As well, the engine designers also added in deliberate variation between each cylinder via different inlet valve timing, and having consolidated intakes versus individual manifold runners, to supposedly add a bit more "character".

 

[Old Can Ride]

Bear in mind that, as the NGK link that 670cc posted says, the 100K plus life is for OEM plugs. They state the life of their own aftermarket plugs as much less. The OEM plugs often have a 0.6-0.7mm tip where the replacement plugs are in the 0.4mm range. There are lots of variables that could make the life of plugs different and there is no one number for plug life. You can be assured though that if the number was 250,000 miles that people would be running them 400,000 miles.

On us cheap folks running plugs for as many miles we can get out of them, I completely 110% agree. NGK's are great plugs, and NGK only does make custom Honda only plugs that can only be purchased though a honda dealership.

I was a honda dealer (retired), and know beyond any reasonable doubt that NGK makes some plugs just for honda only. Just can not be bought any where else on this earth except from Honda at Honda's price. Dealships can buy these plugs at a great price, and sell them at the Honda price!

Being cheap and I could not make myself pay $30, for a $2.25 plug. I called NGK, and was told that only a Honda Exec. would be given an alternate plug for the NC7.

Simply by accident I happened to know that Honda Exec., who helped calling NGK for me. That is how I got the NGK part number. I am not saying that this plug is better or worst than the Honda NGK plug, but after 32,000 miles it works just as good. I do recommend changing the plugs when Honda recommends.

 

[MZ5]

Yes, the idle misfires are there either way. Worse when cold, but not an abnormal condition at any temp. The fine-center-electrode plugs heat up faster, and _may_ very slightly reduce those cold misfires. You'd have to have access to much faster machinery than I have laying around in my spare pants to quantify any difference, though.

 

[JimbosToys]

Thanks guys. I also suspect that the misfires were already there, just masked by the oem muffler.
Plugs already on their way, so once delivered will pull the current ones and check them (fyi, 18k miles on bike).
Info much appreciated! Jim

 

[Old Can Ride]

I have run these NGK BKR6E $2.25 spark plugs for over 40,000 miles now. I am going on a little trip tomorrow, so I decided to change them. Looking at how clean these plugs are, and how perfect they have burned, it is no wonder this bike gets such good mileage. The folks at Honda have this mixture perfect. After looking at my cheap plugs, I would not find it hard to believe that the orginal high dollar plugs could go over 100,000 miles.

 

[Whiteyez]

New spark plugs for my NC after 48000km.

 

[bamamate]

Old ones look barely used.

 

[Whiteyez]

So they can go more than 48000km?

 

[oldhack]

The color of those plugs is excellent. Expected to see the insulator much whiter due to the stock lean settings. Can definitely go longer than 48000 km by the looks of the electrode.

 

[Old Can Ride]

I have no problem believing these plugs. I do think the original plugs can do around 100,000 miles. I have somewhat simular plugs in my auto that do not even require a change to 98,000 miles. My daughter put 130,000 miles on her auto plugs.