Please, please, tell me my bike is ok?

[Afan]

Broght my new (to me) 2013 NC700X DCT home on Sunday. Today I rode it to work (60 miles). Everything's looks great, as it supposed to be - except it sounded, and vibrated, like a little tractor, like one cylinder thumper, almost like KLR. When I accelerate (nothing abruptly, I'm not speed guy, just regular), almost regardless were I in 2nd or 5th gear, it would start kinda vibrating and sound tractorish. Once I start "cruising" everthing's ok, like a saw machine... When I was testing I don't remember that. Probably because I was all concentrated on DCT and missing clutch levers and panicing how to stop without clutch, and not to drop the bike... Those who tried DCT know what am I talking about when they tried DCT first time.

So, please, please... Tell me that's how it supposed to be and that I didn't buy a lemon.

 

[PortlandZinMan]

This is most likely normal. Took a bit to get used to the fact that in "D"rive mode, it shifts very early and lugs. Try a ride in "S"port mode and see if that addresses what you feel is Thumper/Tractor effect.

 

[Deckyon]

Put it in S mode instead of D and you will have a much different (and better, in my opinion) ride and experience. The difference in mileage is not worth the better feel and performance. There is no need to be in 6th gear at 40 MPH. In S mode, it changed gears when I would have and just felt better.

 

[Techrat]

When I first got my bike I accidentally clicked it into neutral and then into manual mode, which put the bike into first gear. While trying accelerate the bike sounded like a tractor until I clicked it back in to "D" mode. You may have been in manual mode and didn't know it. Try taking the bike out to an empty road or parking lot and riding in manual mode in first gear and accelerating and see if the noise returns. Then try shifting up and down to get a feel for the gears and the shift points. Trust me, it works wonders.

 

[Afan]

A bit confused here... I know it shifts a bit earlier, I don't mind that, I'm doing pretty similar thing on my ST, I like that. But, if it lugs often while in D, isn't it kinda sign of bad "setting" or something? I don't mind riding in S mode (I'm gonna test it on my lunch break and I'll let you know) but it sounds like "don't use D ever, except when on interstate on high speed?!?

I don't want to be smart ***, just want to understand it. And be sure the bike is not "broken"

Thanks for responds.

 

[Techrat]

D = Drive. City mode. Usually bumper-to-bump traffic at low speeds usually less than 30mph. Best gas mileage.
S = Sport. Highway. Less traffic. Higher speeds, over 30mph. Higher shift points. Rides smoother.
M = Manual. Do what you like.

2016 and up have three (S)port modes.
S1-S3 = Interstate. The higher the mode the more aggressive the shift points.

 

[dduelin]

A bit confused here... I now it shifts a bit earlier, I don't mind that, I'm doing pretty similar thing on my ST, I like that. But, if it lugs often while in D, isn't it kinda sign of bad "setting" or something? I don't mind riding in S mode (I'm gonna test it on my lunch break and I'll let you know) but it sounds like "don't use D ever, except when on interstate on high speed?!?

I don't want to be smart ***, just want to understand it. And be sure the bike is not "broken"

Thanks for responds.

It's not broken and it's not fair to compare it to the smooth as silk V4 in the ST. The NC has a 270 degree crankshaft that has a "bang-bang long pause bang-bang" firing order. At lower rpms, say under 2600, when the engine is under load from incline or acceleration it tends to vibrate or throb. This is completely normal. For economy the transmission is programmed to shift at 1800 or 2000 under light load so it's always in that lumpy range until 55-60 in 6th.

I kind of ride in one of three modes. One, leave it in D and don't fret. Honda designed it to run forever at low rpms. It doesn't hurt anything. Two, use S and just let it hold gears longer and downshift earlier. Three, choose D but actively override auto mode and thumb downshifts when I ask a little more out of it such as when climbing a hill or passing a slower vehicle. This is just like downshifting a manual except when the load catches up to the rpm it will upshift on its own.

In spirited riding in the curves, attacking corners I'm in Three all the time, D or S, using manual override on the paddles to keep the rpms up.

To get the most out of this low powered bike one learns how to use DCT to best advantage.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

To get the most out of this low powered bike one learns how to use DCT to best advantage.

Same true for manual shifting... Coming from 250 dualsports rather than crotch rockets/sports bikes, one either learns to shift to get the best out of an engine... or NOT. Seems to me like the feel of a bike tells you all this if you put your ear to the gas tank, really ; }

 

[670cc]

I'll throw one more variable out there. Not all 670cc engines are the same. Some simply vibrate more than others. I have two myself, same model year about 200 serial numbers apart and with the same mileage. One shakes more the other. I've test ridden probably 15 670cc bikes from NM4 to CTX to NCX, mostly DCTs. Some I noticed were real shakers at 2000 RPM, while some were quite smooth. I have to assume they all fall within the acceptance range for the design.

Given more use and break in time, yours may smooth out. Chain tension should probably be checked to be sure it's not too tight. You always have the option of using manual mode to shift it when you want.

 

[DCTFAN]

A bit confused here... I now it shifts a bit earlier, I don't mind that, I'm doing pretty similar thing on my ST, I like that. But, if it lugs often while in D, isn't it kinda sign of bad "setting" or something? I don't mind riding in S mode (I'm gonna test it on my lunch break and I'll let you know) but it sounds like "don't use D ever, except when on interstate on high speed?!?

I don't want to be smart ***, just want to understand it. And be sure the bike is not "broken"

Thanks for responds.

That's all there is to it.
You've discovered D mode, only to forget it immediately.
.
I only use it on long super highway travel, if I still remember there is a D mode.

 

[DirtFlier]

I also have a 2013 DCT model. In D, under normal acceleration it upshifts at 2000 rpm so it will sound and feel as if the engine is being lugged but it doesn't do any harm. In S, and with normal acceleration it upshifts at 3000 rpm.

In D, downshifting while coming to a stop seems to take forever and it's not until I'm almost stopped that it clicks into 1st gear. Approaching the stop and slowing it goes into 5th then 4th until just before I stop then it downshifts bang, bang, bang into 1st.

It's "normal."

 

[AsureDawn]

Yeah, top gear is a lot higher than 5th, so it has to shift down earlier, but 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd are pretty close together and each can be run from about 13 to 42 mph, minumum. It'll be a rough ride at those speeds if you use the lowest gear possible, but should be fine otherwise.

Personally, I try to keep the rpms at around 2000, so I only hit 5th or 6th at 40-45mph+ and stay in third at about 30mph (iirc). But mostly, I shift according to feel, and to prepare for a change in speed (up or down).

 

[ST13Fred]

I disagree w/the shift points in both D or S modes and solely paddle shift which are a more enjoyable and easier form of manual shifting. DCT and fuel economy are the reasons I bought an NC.

 

[Olythom]

+1 on what DD said. I generally ride in D for my commute. Yes, the bike tends to buck a little on occasion but I have developed a powerful trust in Honda engineers over the years. I enjoy looking down to see the mpg gauge sitting at 88mpg while cruising on the two lane at 47mph. When i head out to the curvy stuff for some fun, I do that in S. Regardless of which mode I'm in, I am always using the paddles to make things feel right. Downshifting during braking is normal procedure for me and the tranny does it perfectly every single time.
>Thom

 

[Afan]

I was doing a research about this bike (and CB500X) for last 6 months, when I start thinking about 2nd bike. I watched/read tons of videos/articles/reviews. So, I am/was pretty aware what am I buying, all pros and cons of DCT. I tested NC standard (almost a year ago though), and rode Africa Twin with DCT. So, somehow I'm familiar with the "concept".

When I rode my NC yesterday back home from work (it's 60+ miles on highways and back rodas, passing through several cities), I was testing all options/modes.
When in S everything work ok, no complains.
When in D I had the same issue I was reffering in the opening post of the thread, the engine was "chugging" like a KLR when in 4th/5th/6th gear. And a lot of wibrations. I had a feeling it's gonna stall any moment, the engine was "suffering". I had to shift down manually to get rid off that sound. And as somebody said 5th gear at 36mph and/or 6th gear at 42mph looks weird but I believe at Honda's engineers that they give some thoughts about the whole New Concept. So, my thoughts are:
1) it's caused (not likely) because my 250+ lbs, a bit more than average, and there must be some kind of an "adjustment" or something?
2) since this is used bike (2013, only 4,000 miles though), maybe the bike has an issue, or the DCT is broken?

So, manually shifting gears when my bike start chugging in D, I see more as a patch, not as a fix of my issue - except if I see/read in the manual that's the way it is. Then I'll accept it. Not what I had in my mind, but I would know I don't have broken bike.

BTW, I didn't get the Owner's Manual from previous owner, so if somebody has in PDF to send it to me? Or if there is a page I can download it. I think I have few more issues (parking brake, ABS light, right hand side display button), but I don't want to brag about them until I'm 100% sure I'm using them correct.

D = Drive. City mode. Usually bumper-to-bump traffic at low speeds usually less than 30mph. Best gas mileage.
S = Sport. Highway. Less traffic. Higher speeds, over 30mph. Higher shift points. Rides smoother.
M = Manual. Do what you like.

2016 and up have three (S)port modes.
S1-S3 = Interstate. The higher the mode the more aggressive the shift points.

I'm not quite sure this is correct. Never heard it before. And doesn't make a sense. In D shifting is much earlier, lower RPM than S and that's it. Both you can use in a city and on a highway. It's totally the same as in automatic cars with D, S and manual shifting (my wife's Mustang has the same)

I also have a 2013 DCT model. In D, under normal acceleration it upshifts at 2000 rpm so it will sound and feel as if the engine is being lugged but it doesn't do any harm. It's "normal."

Are you sure it doesn't do any harm?!?!?

Personally, I try to keep the rpms at around 2000, so I only hit 5th or 6th at 40-45mph+ and stay in third at about 30mph (iirc). But mostly, I shift according to feel, and to prepare for a change in speed (up or down).

This is about DCT model, so in D/S you kinda dont' control it. Except manually up/down shifting

+1 on what DD said. I generally ride in D for my commute. Yes, the bike tends to buck a little on occasion
>Thom

That's my problem Thom, when in D and open the throttle, the bike shifts to 2nd (occasionally to 3rd) w/o any problem. But once it shifts to 4th/5th/6th it starts chugging EVERY time. And once I hit 55-60 mph and start cruising - everything's ok again. The chugging is happening every time. That's why am I concerned.

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to prove this is bad bike or something. I bough it because I really like it. I just want to solve my problem - if any.

 

[showkey]

Some bikes are chuggers........like the NC........long stoke, flat level torque curve, low rpm red line

Some bikes are spinners or buzzing.........like the CB500x.......short stoke, ring its neck to get power, peaky, high rpm red line.

Each bike has it sweet spot or compromise rpm...........in the case of the DCT computer it might not find the sweet spot to your liking. Then use the manual controls. In the case of the manual gear box user choice of the sweet spot is the only option. In both cases it's a judgement call.

It is interesting this chugging, lugging vibration and engine noise level ( all relate back to the bikes character) comes up about every 6-8 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Some bikes are spinners or buzzing.........like the CB500x.......short stoke, ring its neck to get power, peaky, high rpm red line.

Seems like the CB500X is in the middle to me, and that's not even looking at real winders -- just comparing it to my WR that does fine up near its redline at 11.5K.

 

[Deckyon]

You are way over-thinking it.

D - you will reach 6th gear (chugging and vibrations) at 35-40 mph. This is why I dont use D. I dont like it chugging like that, personally. It's nothing wrong with the bike or the transmission. It is just how it works. D is like being in the doldrums. It is sluggish, it chugs. It is meant for miserly people who measure mileage down to the 100th. Personally, I stopped worrying about it and just ride it. the extra pennies D will save over a tank just are not worth it to me.

S - shifts where common sense says to shift. Works out basically on the 10s, with it finally shifting into 6th just before 60 mph. (varies with conditions and load, this isn't exact.) I like this mode. It is quick, responsive, no where near being sluggish or chugging. And as you said - It works fine.

I have put over 18000 miles on my 2014 DCT and the thing is bullet proof. Love it. I just keep it in S and shift whenever I need to (which is less and less).



IF you are THAT worried - take it to a certified shop and have it inspected. Everything here is supposition - we cant get on your bike and feel what you are.

 

[Deckyon]

Quote Originally Posted by AsureDawn View Post
Personally, I try to keep the rpms at around 2000, so I only hit 5th or 6th at 40-45mph+ and stay in third at about 30mph (iirc). But mostly, I shift according to feel, and to prepare for a change in speed (up or down).

This is about DCT model, so in D/S you kinda dont' control it. Except manually up/down shifting

you can control the throttle and the gearing, so the only difference is not being able to feather a clutch. If you find you cannot control it, more practice might be needed.

 

[ld_rider]

Tell me that's how it supposed to be and that I didn't buy a lemon.

That is how it supposed to be and you didn't buy a lemon.

You might have bought the wrong bike, as many former NC riders have found out, but your motorcycle is most likely performing <exactly> as the engine, transmission, chassis, and software engineers envisioned.

The New Concept 700XD sounds and feels like a tractor for a couple of reasons: It has only 47 hp or so at the rear wheel, weighs over a quarter-ton, funky 270 degree timing, and it was designed at the altar of fuel economy.

There is no nod to performance in the mission statement unless by performance you mean great fuel economy, which it excels at. The trade-off is very tepid performance for a 700 bike. Each gallon of fuel only has so much energy, and if you are just sipping fuel, well, you aren't converting very many of those dead dinosaurs to forward motion unless you have the gearing.....

The lumpy 270 degree firing order was suppose to add "character" to the bike but really I think all it did was exacerbate the "tractor" feel of the motorcycle at low revs, which is where the goddess of fuel economy resides. That is why our DCTs love to hang out a hair's breath away from the really annoying chugga-chugga-chugga area and will in fact tip into that tractor "sweet spot" with the slightest increase in throttle.

If you grab a real handful of throttle though, the bike should down shift RIGHT NOW (even in D) and you will pass through the tractor zone pretty quickly. My bike has about 32,000 miles on it and I have been out of D for about 2 (two) of those miles. Rest of the time it has been D and I have (apparently) adjusted to it quite well, since the engine hammering away at low revs doesn't bother me too much. I either grab a handful of throttle or if really motivated, I will execute a manual down shift.