Who doesn't like the DCT and why?

[Doc True]

I've read several threads and post of people who love or like the DCT, but haven't ran across one where someone disliked it. I'm sure there are folks who don't. Could you tell me what you didn't like about it?

Thanks.


Forgive me if this has been discussed before. I couldn't find a thread on it. Please direct me to it if it exists.

 

[670cc]

I test rode DCT bikes about 10-12 times. From the VFR, to the CTX700, NM4, and NC700X. I'm impressed with how well the design is implemented and how well it shifts. It also starts from a standstill like it's not even there. Twist and go seamlessly.

What I didn't like is the shift points chosen. D was too conservative and S was too agressive. I always said more in-between modes were needed. Well that wish was granted, apparently, with the 2016 generation of DCT.

All that being good stuff for sure, the one thing DCT lacks is situational awareness of what lies ahead while riding. It doesn't know, for example, that there's no point in up shifting because 2 seconds from now I intend to accelerate.

We have 3 CVT scooters in our fleet so riding without a clutch and not shifting is not foreign to me. I transition back and forth from auto to manual bikes with no problem.

But most important, I shift manual transmission bikes using no conscious thought anyway. It just happens by itself like breathing. If I had a DCT I would be quite happy with it, but frankly I'd rather have a manual and spend the difference in cost on other farkles.

Finally, one of the aspects of riding that gives me great satisfaction is operating the six controls expertly as if they were an extension of my body. The six controls, besides body positioning, are front brake, rear brake, throttle, clutch, shifter, and steering. Going to the DCT model reduces the controls down to just four. Somehow I don't find the DCT experience as satisfying.

My advice would be that if you want an automatic, go get one. The DCT works great. I guess to me it just doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

[L.B.S.]

One thing I've often pondered with a DCT machine, is what happens if you want forward movement only at idle speed, with no throttle input?

What is the threshold for cessation of forward movement versus lowest speed you can idle along at? Must this be carefully manipulated by a very small throttle input, or a larger amount then trimmed down by brake usage?

Are the slowest of slow riding speeds, at all jerky or have any surging feel from throttle inputs- both accidental or deliberate?

Not that this is a huge deal of course, and maybe no one but me has very much occasion to trundle along at 11 kph and no throttle, but as usual, I am probably the odd duck out, lol.

Another of the things that really bugged me about my BMW, was the non ability to change gearing, and the first gear being tall, it was super easy to stall without constant death vigilance via throttle and clutch and brake work. On my NCX test ride, I spent a good 15 minutes burbling around a parking lot with no hand on the throttle, no need to touch brakes or clutch, and reveling in the smooth and steady delivery of movement at walking speed-which often I enjoy doing.

 

[agia]

I can't say I dislike the DCT because I've never ridden one and I've never been interested in trying one. I have three bikes in the garage -- all clutch operated. Having over 40+ years of riding experience with clutched bikes, I'm OK staying where I'm at. I did finally get my first automatic transmission car in 2001 and I still drive that same car today. I drove manual transmission cars and trucks before that.

 

[Gbjbany]

Im new to the dct but have also ridden cvt scooters for a few years. My previous bike was an FJR (the manual version)

I can say after just 1000 miles - these 2 things bother me , only a small amount but these are the 2

The first is the gear change is actually in some cases rather clunkly - its a minor issue and its only on occaision but sometimes i wish i could do it more smoothly

The other, and a more important one, is the one LBS raises. That of lack of throttle+clutch control - 2 instances where i have had this become an issue

1. In my work car park we have motorcycle parking, its tight, and when you start - its very hard to get the exact amount of throttle to start ( revs are high as its cold) without seeming like you are going to career into another bike. I now warm up the bike first. It helps but still, immediate throttle on is a problem - great from the lights ! - not so much here.

2. I was following a rider up a switchback and for some reason he slowed a lot coming out of the corner - so i got close, i had no way to keep revs up to keep me upright whilst slipping the clutch ! _ i had to just go for it and steer away. i missed the other bike by inches but it made me stay much further back - lesson learned.

 

[Fred]

I have a new 2013 DC dealer leftover.just done 600 mile service plus a 100mi.
Every time I ride this bike I am more impressed. Stuck in traffic on I-24 for an hour and was able to creep along at 0 to 5 mph with no hesitation or jerking motion at al, could stand up like I was dirt biking with no discernable snaps or jerks to throw me off balance. 'stop and go... no jerking. Amazing engine and gear train synchronization. For those who commute in the city this bike has to be a joy in traffic compared to clutching in an out again and again. I still have two bikes with clutches and foot shifts and enjoy riding them for what they are, but really appreciate the technology of this bike. So far no issues with gear train... just the ##%^&* three dollar suspension..( I would definitely consider the Africa Twin with the DC in another year or so. it certainly demonstrates Honda's confidence in this DC auto program)

 

[L.B.S.]

Im new to the dct but have also ridden cvt scooters for a few years. My previous bike was an FJR (the manual version)

I can say after just 1000 miles - these 2 things bother me , only a small amount but these are the 2

The first is the gear change is actually in some cases rather clunkly - its a minor issue and its only on occaision but sometimes i wish i could do it more smoothly

The other, and a more important one, is the one LBS raises. That of lack of throttle+clutch control - 2 instances where i have had this become an issue

1. In my work car park we have motorcycle parking, its tight, and when you start - its very hard to get the exact amount of throttle to start ( revs are high as its cold) without seeming like you are going to career into another bike. I now warm up the bike first. It helps but still, immediate throttle on is a problem - great from the lights ! - not so much here.

2. I was following a rider up a switchback and for some reason he slowed a lot coming out of the corner - so i got close, i had no way to keep revs up to keep me upright whilst slipping the clutch ! _ i had to just go for it and steer away. i missed the other bike by inches but it made me stay much further back - lesson learned.

From what I understand, I think us previous clutch only dudes have to retrain our riding style to utilize the rear brake a lot more; fine tuning the slow speed maneuvering via brake instead of the automatic grabbing for a non existent lever, heh heh

I mean in theory, you could rev a DCT up quite a bit higher than you would want to ordinarily, but keep it check with the rear brake. (same as a cold high idle efi or choke equipped carb bike is prone to do, needing clutch work more so than when the bike is warm)

I would feel a little bit disconcerted with a lack of engine braking, but think I could get used to it without too much time going by. My two stroke street bikes had virtually nil compression braking, and you just sort of adapted and worked around it, forgetting it after a while. (then getting caught out taking a high comp 4 stroke twin out, and crushing your jewels into the tank at the first throttle release, hahaha)

 

[670cc]

I have a new 2013 DC dealer leftover.just done 600 mile service plus a 100mi.
Every time I ride this bike I am more impressed. Stuck in traffic on I-24 for an hour and was able to creep along at 0 to 5 mph with no hesitation or jerking motion at al, could stand up like I was dirt biking with no discernable snaps or jerks to throw me off balance. 'stop and go... no jerking. Amazing engine and gear train synchronization. For those who commute in the city this bike has to be a joy in traffic compared to clutching in an out again and again. I still have two bikes with clutches and foot shifts and enjoy riding them for what they are, but really appreciate the technology of this bike. So far no issues with gear train... just the ##%^&* three dollar suspension..( I would definitely consider the Africa Twin with the DC in another year or so. it certainly demonstrates Honda's confidence in this DC auto program)

Yes, but the question for this thread is for people who dislike the DCT and why. If we get off track from that question, this will just be another DCT praise thread which we have several of already. Let's stay focused here.

 

[TigerDude]

I think the dislike is mostly some idea of what riding a bike should be. You can't really separate the emotions from the thinking on things like this (well, usually, 670 seems to be an exception <bow>).

My response is that I don't think Ferrari owners are complaining about their lost clutch pedal.

 

[dduelin]

Having had both a manual transmission 700X for just under 30,000 miles and now riding a DCT version for just about 10,000 miles I can say the DCT has some compromises but in the whole I like the DCT version more because I readily adapted to the compromises and for me the advantages of DCT outweigh the compromises. What I don't like is the DCT will never downshift as smoothly as I do and without RBW it cannot perfectly match revs when downshifting, particularly under heavy braking. OTOH, the NC700X has such good fueling and overall engine manners the low speed handling of both types is excellent. I've posted a couple of videos previously, one doing circles and figure 8s with only the throttle hand on the bars. There has never been a situation on the DCT where I felt like I had less control than a manual transmission and when stopping on uncertain surfaces the DCT is easier and safer than a clutch bike.

 

[sawride]

From what I understand, I think us previous clutch only dudes have to retrain our riding style to utilize the rear brake a lot more; fine tuning the slow speed maneuvering via brake instead of the automatic grabbing for a non existent lever, heh heh

I mean in theory, you could rev a DCT up quite a bit higher than you would want to ordinarily, but keep it check with the rear brake. (same as a cold high idle efi or choke equipped carb bike is prone to do, needing clutch work more so than when the bike is warm)

I would feel a little bit disconcerted with a lack of engine braking, but think I could get used to it without too much time going by. My two stroke street bikes had virtually nil compression braking, and you just sort of adapted and worked around it, forgetting it after a while. (then getting caught out taking a high comp 4 stroke twin out, and crushing your jewels into the tank at the first throttle release, hahaha)

I only have a little over 600 miles on my DCT and you're correct about using a little back brake to make up for the lack of a clutch lever in very slow maneuvers. BUT you do have compression braking with the DCT. "D" mode keeps it in a higher gear than I would typically use but you can always hit the "-" button once or twice when approaching a corner or a stop and get the same compression braking a manual transmission provides.

 

[Gbjbany]

From what I understand, I think us previous clutch only dudes have to retrain our riding style to utilize the rear brake a lot more; fine tuning the slow speed maneuvering via brake instead of the automatic grabbing for a non existent lever, heh heh

I mean in theory, you could rev a DCT up quite a bit higher than you would want to ordinarily, but keep it check with the rear brake. (same as a cold high idle efi or choke equipped carb bike is prone to do, needing clutch work more so than when the bike is warm)

I would feel a little bit disconcerted with a lack of engine braking, but think I could get used to it without too much time going by. My two stroke street bikes had virtually nil compression braking, and you just sort of adapted and worked around it, forgetting it after a while. (then getting caught out taking a high comp 4 stroke twin out, and crushing your jewels into the tank at the first throttle release, hahaha)

i agree -
2 things to consider though on a scooter the rear brake is where the "non-existant" clutch would be - vs the foot - makes it a new learning experience
The rear brake on the NC700 ( i suspect i will get flamed for this) is just weak - im almost standing on the thing to brake anything like my FJR did - Im not sure it would hold high revs - but to be honest i havent tried

 

[Old Can Ride]

Fuzzy and Dave have both convinced me. My next bike (coming in May or June) has the DTC transmission. As for jumping over logs with the manual tansmission being a better solution, I bent my front rim today. I have now bent both the front and the rear rims on my NC700X. So, tomorrow I ride a bent front rim NC700X to Arkansas for the Hillbilly Hangout.. But I would be willing to bet it will not be long until I bend a DCT rim! My son says no one has ever made a motorcycle I can not tear up?

 

[670cc]

Again, the thread subject is, "Who doesn't like the DCT and why?"

 

[dduelin]

i agree -
2 things to consider though on a scooter the rear brake is where the "non-existant" clutch would be - vs the foot - makes it a new learning experience
The rear brake on the NC700 ( i suspect i will get flamed for this) is just weak - im almost standing on the thing to brake anything like my FJR did - Im not sure it would hold high revs - but to be honest i havent tried

Yes, for transitioning from a scooter to a motorcycle the foot brake is a new skill to master but Honda has built many types of motorcycles that had a standard rear foot brake and an automatic clutch (no left hand lever for a brake - foot only). You don't say what year but FJRs starting with the 2006 model to present year have the rear brake linked to the front. On these bikes applying rear brake also applies some front brake which makes for a very strong brake pedal. The 2012-2013 NCs had a linked brake system but I'm unsure of the specifics.

The rear brake on the NC700X is weak compared to some other bikes but I've owned bikes with worse.

 

[lootzyan]

...The 2012-2013 NCs had a linked brake system but I'm unsure of the specifics....

Brakes are linked (or "combined" by Honda definition) by use of differential and proportional valves, external to ABS modulator.

 

[spets]

I would feel a little bit disconcerted with a lack of engine braking, but think I could get used to it without too much time going by. My two stroke street bikes had virtually nil compression braking, and you just sort of adapted and worked around it, forgetting it after a while. (then getting caught out taking a high comp 4 stroke twin out, and crushing your jewels into the tank at the first throttle release, hahaha)

Note, you can downshift in a DCT even in auto mode, and it will hold the selected gear as long as you don't twist the throttle. No problems with engine braking.

 

[netizen]

This thread instantly reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer refused to wear "The ribbon"... "Who does not want to wear the ribbon"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaqI20WHyk

In this case... "Who does not want the DCT" (Imagining a group of motorcycle thugs grimacing at the lone Non DCT rider that rides up and dismounts) LOL

Sorry I couldn't help myself I actually think the DCT is awesome even though I don't own one... riding behind Fuzzy near Deals gap I acquired DCT envy

 

[johnakay]

my only grip is the looks. why can't they do the 'S model with a decent nose fairing like this yammy...

 

[GregC]

Note, you can downshift in a DCT even in auto mode, and it will hold the selected gear as long as you don't twist the throttle. No problems with engine braking.

I do this all the time on curvy roads to keep off the brakes in the curves.

My chief complaint is the instrument display ... no "distance to empty." That's just nuts ... and don't get me started on the insane "count up to 0.88 gal" when you hit the last bar on the fuel display. Honda really should prohibit use of hallucinogens by their programmers.